Need Prozac

[gofast]

Being a new owner of a GS, I was happy as hell - I love my bike.

But all this about failed rear drives, crappy dealers, failed splines etc is making me depressed - should I have looked elsewhere for my dream bike?

I have seen complaints about every marque, even Honda, but man this is getting opressive, I'll tell you what.

I will say this: I have never had a better dealership experience THUS FAR than when I bought my GS. When I owned and rode any number of Japanese bikes I DREADED having to go to a dealership and cope with the total assholles that seem to populate the management, sales and service departments of just about every one I have been in.

Thankfully, I never had any real problems with new bikes, and all my older bikes I worked on myself. But I'm no master mechanic, and I wouldn't have a hope of repairing a final drive.....

I dunno - maybe I oughta just get prozac. Then again I could stop worrying about it and just ride the damn thing.

But, does anyone have anything POSITIVE to say about longevity an dependability?

brad

[Reformed DucFlogger]

The GS is great, has some quirks (bars suck, surging which is cheapily fixed) runs forever, but the dealers/service guys suck more often than not.

Like with the Ducatis I used to own - finding a good dealer is a real hit or miss affair.

Learn to do the basics yourself (EASY bike to work on) and just go to dealer for the absolute minium.

[bvkamp]

gofast-

Have no fear, not everyone in here is bitter. I have been very pleased with my 6-month-old GS so far and my dealership experience has been a positive one in every respect. They return my phone calls in a timely manner. They address me by my first name when I walk in the door. The service technicians have stepped into the waiting area to personally and politely answer any questions I have. They have even taken the time to give me advice on some of my do-it-yourself mods. For anyone in the Nothern Illinois/Chicago area, it is TAG Sport BMW in Geneva. Kent and the boyz will take good care of you!

[configurationspace]

The dealer that I bought my GS from has been excellent (country rode motowerks). Never a problem with the mechanics, they're happy to show me what they're doing to the bike and they've supplied help and constructive criticism regarding my own maintenance of the bike. They've offered some free parts and service, know me by name, respond to my e-mail queries quickly, etc.

I've also seen a bad BMW dealer. The one in Edmonton sucks. They have a nice big shop, but they're impersonal to the point that they don't keep track of their mechanics, some of whom can do an awful job.

It sounds like you've got to shop around a bit.

The only problems I've had with my GS were either created by myself or by that mechanic in Edmonton. They've all been readily fixed, though.

[Crush]

I'm new here. I've has my GS since April '01. Yes, my final drive failed too (~13k) as did the shift block on the input to the transmission. I bought my bike from Sierra BMW (Reno-Sparks) and rode it home to Anchorage. I thought I needed Prozak too. Now the good news. 24k and no problems. I do my own service, it's not hard, just a little intimidating at first. Nobody takes care of your bike like you do. Just ride it and before long you will be tucking it in at night.

[Reformed DucFlogger]

I should mention that, acooring to my wife (I have yet to meet the guy), the wrench at our dealership is very well regarded and seems to know his shit. The salesman and parts folks on the other hand are a radically different story.

I've had GREAT service for parts from BMW Santa Clara and a couple others in the US. Bear in mind that in Canada, BMW is moving 90% of the bike franchises into BMW CAR dealerships. This just makes a hit or miss situation that much more ugly.

It is worth nothing that with shaft drive and ABS power-assisted brakes, we've all bought bikes that are a tad more complex than the average. Sometimes quirky German committe-based design and decision making methods sometimes don't help.

Get yourself a TwinMax for TB balancing, pull the LYB or LPB (do a search here), buy some Champion RC9YCs or equivs, learn what surging REALLY is (hestitation) get a factory manual, some Torx bits and NEVER ask the dealer a question when you just know the answers' going to be "they all do that" and you'll live in relative peace, drug free.

The bike handles like a dream and will make you feel like the best MotoGP has to offer. I can now have the tank off in 10 secs flat, exposing 50% of the bikes guts as a result, so simple maintenance takes no time.

Enjoy

[j©ney3™]

Dude, have no fear, for you have made the right choice. We have two GSs in this house, one with 30K and a GSAdv with 20K. No problems on either bike...and we beat them relentlessly in very sandy and hot conditions. Yes, there are some oddities and BMW will charge a lot for work, but the bike is strong and, if taken care of, will last a long time. You have purchased a very special and unique bike, and with it come a few hassles, but the good outweighs the bad BY FAR!!! Have fun, ride it like you stole it, change the oil once in a while and she WILL treat you good

[Curmudgeon]

If you get a good one, then all bikes are great to own. The rub comes on the probability of getting a well built BMW. With BMW your chances are high that you'll be taking your baby to the butcher/dealer for service, and all the bad service departments just compounds the agony. If it weren't for Ohlins, Rick's bars and the warranty my GS would have been sold faster than a cat can lick it's ass. I love the Ohlins/Ricky's bars version of the bike I currently ride but, if I had to pay for all the warranty work, I couldn't have afforded to keep the pig. In stock trim and with the build quality of my GS, I'd never recommend the bike. As a matter of fact, I'm often asked about my GS, and sadly, I have to admit that I love my unreliable money pit, but don't recommend it to others.

If you get a reliable BMW and have a good dealer, then count your blessings and enjoy. Now go spend another $1500 on Ohlins and Rick's bars for some real riding bliss.

Patrick
Live Long and Ride

[Axel White]

I tend to agree with the positive voices on this particular thread. Naturally the people that have problems are going to be a lot more vocal than the ones who are pleased with their bikes and their dealers.

I have owned a 96 R1100R, 98 F650, 98 R1100R, 98 K1200RS, 98 R1200C, 2000 R1150GS, 2002 K1200RS and now a 2003 R1150 GS. And the only serious problems that I have had with the bikes were on the F 650 and the 2002 K1200GS.

My wife drove the 650 into a major ditch with a lot more injuries to herself than the bike ..which I drove home albeit with some bits and pieces missing. And the 2002 K1200RS failed me miserably in Nevada when I hit a deer at 80 MPH. Fortunately, there the bike was totalled, and I walked away and flew home courtesy of Southwest.

Both incidences could hardly be called the bikes fault. Sure there is some surging with the R engines, but it is basically a low speed issue, and as long as you keep the revs up and drive the damn thing like it was designed it is a non-issue with me.

The dealers in my area, like many others, are spotty. We have two about 50 miles apart. The old established one also sells Japanese iron and changes his staff more frequently then I change my underwear. That is bad!

The newer one here in my town is a combined BMW car and bike dealer and tries hard, but is afflicted with turn over in the service department. It will take a while to get the right techs in place and so far, except for a few screwups, they are doing good. At least their heart is in the right place, they readily admit when they screwup and fix things right away. It also helps that the owner of the combined dealership rides a K1200RS.

So don't despair ... both the bikes and the dealers are generally good with some exceptions. Every brand of bike, and for that matter car, have their problems with dealers. just something we have to live with if we want to keep riding.

I have no concern about taking my BMW bikes on 5000 mile solo runs into southern Mexico. I would not trust many other bikes to make back without being in the back of a pick-up truck.

The bikes are still a hell of a lot more dependable and usefull than our alternative..the horse.

[Curmudgeon]

Said Axel White:

Snip...

I have owned a 96 R1100R, 98 F650, 98 R1100R, 98 K1200RS, 98 R1200C, 2000 R1150GS, 2002 K1200RS and now a 2003 R1150 GS. And the only serious problems that I have had with the bikes were on the F 650 and the 2002 K1200GS.

Snip...

How many mile have put on each bike. If it's less than 12K/bike then you're just renting the damn things. Owners keep their bikes for three plus years and 40K miles (or more), and there for have valid data to contribute reliability discussions.

Patrick
Live Long and Ride

[Axel White]

....I guess I do not qualify by your standards. Fortunately I do not have an 8 to 5 so I have lots of time to ride. But I never put on more than about 20,000 miles on a bike before I trade it in.

Hell, in hardly ever put that many miles on the cars I own before I turn them in.

But this does not take away from my experiences with dealers and their service departments.

[Reformed DucFlogger]

...is a relative thing. I've had simple Ducs going back to the dealer meer weeks after pick up ad "tempermental" ones run like tops.

Most of the service calls were due to crappy work by the service decks (sidestands falling off, stripped bolts, shitty jetting, blah, blah, blah....).

My S never idled properly for the first 6 mos of it's life with us. My wife's R was fine util the last 6 months. Yet all were serviced as per requirements at 2 different dealers.

My S used/leaked oil like the Exxon Valdez. Didn't affect ridability, but every trip of > 2 hrs meant lugging some 5W20 around which was a royal PITA.

I personally view reliability as a measure of how much you can TRUST the bike on a trip vs. trouble free longevity. Lets be hones 9/10 people don't keep one bike for 50,000 miles, so most folks biking experiences with each platform are short.

Living 100,000 miles with nothing but tuneups is the holy grail. However if a bike starts to give you issues ater 1000 or 4000 miles, either due to design or work done on it, you start hesitating on long ride plans and you start packing more tools and less underwear.

If it's a classic or a beater, you accept that.

If it's a newbie, you start eyeing KTMs as you ride by the local wartering hole. The dealer network is part and parcel of the bike's reliability.

You buy a US$12,000 that's complex and requires specialized tools (ABS, etc) but with a dealer network that you have feasible access to that sucks and results in needless return trips and downtime.

The results is that no matter how inherently reliable the design of the bike should be, the bike starts to suck in your mind's eye. On the East coast where the season is SO short, that can have a HUGE impact on good riding days.

The converse can be true with a beautiful but shitty designed bike with a dealer network that stands on its head to help you.

In short, it's the bike experience the bike+dealer deliver to you from hour 1 onward that matters, not wether a BMW is designed better than a KTM or not.

Everybody's view is different.

[Bill 310]

Duc Flogger

Where did you hear this "BMW is moving 90% of the bike franchises into BMW CAR dealerships"

We have 4 car dealerships in Vancouver and 2 independent BMW bike delearships - One that is number 3 in bike sales in Canada. The two largest BMW bike dealerships are in Montreal and are not tied to car dealerships. In Calgary there is one dealership for Bikes and talk of a second one. In Edmonton it looks like the delership is exclusivley bikes as well

http://www.argyllmotorsports.com/index.php

as here is the car dealership list for canada

http://www.bmw.ca/english/informatio...l_auto-fs.html

Here is a list of bike dealerships canada

http://www.bmw.ca/english/informatio...l_moto-fs.html

In Victoria there is one of each I thought Toronto dealarships with the exception of Budds BMW(Oakville) and BMW Canada's own point of sale shop at BMW headquarters ( the BMW experience centre) in Whitby were either car or bike and not both?

I know about Budds only because bike before last came from there and I grew up near there.

I think that Halifax BMW may also be both bike and care but that is a population thing not a bmw policy, BMW cloed the car dealership in PEI and in New Brunswick so all three maritime provinces have to go to halifax for service ( my brother lives in PEI and has a 325xi and has to make the trip over for service)

Is this a new 90% rule a new BMW policy?

I do know that when they gave the second bike dealership out in Vancouver they declined the car dealership as a candidate because they didn't "get bikes"


I would be interested where you got your information from?

Cheers

[Reformed DucFlogger]

The 90% was my seat of the pants number based on the dealers I knew/kow say from Ontario Eastward.

I chatted with a dealer I know in Halifax during the process they went through that saw them (ProCycle) lose their BMW bike franchise to Halifax BMW.

Apparently there was no negotiation, it was just pulled. It made no sense given that people were always walking in to look at their Ducatis, Hondas, etc. and were potential BMW buyers as a result.

At the time, they stated (assuming no bitter apples here -- they make BIG $$$ selling 10 Harley's for every 1 BMW they sold) was the BMW NA wanted to merge their car and bike franchises across Canada. There was no timeframe or reasons given to me.

The only thing I can assume is that BMW wants to create some form of BMW Experience. I hate the concept, but....

What brings it to mind is that Bavarian MotorSports just sent out notices saying that they were shuting down in Witby, renaming themselves Eastwind or some such and getting absorbed into a new BMW car dealership in frickin' Newmarket.

This would be another 45-60 minutes further east depending on traffic an route used.

I would assume that any Ontario MotoGuzzi owners can bid adieu to any after-sales service from Bavarian as a result.

To my knowledge this leaves the only independent BMW bike dealers in Canada's largest market (based on pop) being McBrides downtown and Wolf's some 2 hrs or so NWest of metro.

Lets just say the trend looks to be confirming the info I was given.

[ZenMaster]

Gofast,

Give your bike a chance to prove itself before you submit to all the negative publicity. My view is as follows and are echoed by many: Sure, the bike has many quirks (some call it character) and may take some getting used to, but it still is a damn fine ride. I have done a relatively low 26k on mine, but I did not baby it and have had no problems to date. I have my bike serviced by the dealer and do the 3k mile oil and filter changes out of my own choice but believe that this goes a long way in protecting my investment.

Keep in mind that the risk and reward of a forum like this lies in the fact that most people will come to say, GSpot, to seek solutions to problems they have. Although you hear people singing the praise of the BMW's every now and then, specifically the R-series bikes, you will probably read about 10 problems/issues or more for every one compliment.

Don't dipair. Go out and enjoy your new ride without reservations. Make up your own mind. :):