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Old 10-12-2007, 10:08 AM   #1
Duster929 OP
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New "stunt driving" law in Ontario - caution!

Hey all. I did a quick scan here and didn't see that anyone else had posted this information. It's mostly for people visiting Ontario who may not be aware of a new law we have here, so I hope those intending to visit will check out this forum.

The new law came into effect the week before last and introduces strict new penalties for "stunt driving". If you are determined in the sole discretion of a police officer to be "stunt driving", you will have your vehicle seized for 7 days, lose your license for 7 days, and face a fine between $2,000 and $10,000. This is not determined in a court, it is at the roadside, and there is no appeals process.

Under the new law, it will be considered "stunt driving" if you do any of the following:

- lifting any tire from the surface of the road (wheelies or stoppies)
- intentionally causing any tire to lose traction while turning (skids or drifting)
- having the intention of causing a vehicle to spin (not sure how they're going to measure intentions...)
- driving a vehicle in oncoming lanes next to another vehicle longer than is "resonably" required to pass
- driving with someone in the trunk (not sure what this has to do with racing or stunting)
- driving while not sitting in the driver's seat
- driving more than 50kph (approx. 30mph) over the speed limit
- driving in a way that prevents others from passing
- slowing down with the intention of slowing or interfering with another vehicle
- driving with the inention of driving as close as possible to a vehicle, pedestrian or fixed object (i'm not sure what this one is about)
- jumping a left turn at a green light before allowing straight-through traffic to proceed


Since the law came into effect, they've been impounding vehicles like it's going out of style (about 1 every 1/2 hour). I would bet the vast majority are for exceeding the speed limit by 50kph. So, 130 on a country road where the speed limit is 80, means your bike goes to a lockup for a week. And the attitude of the OPP is that they don't care if it's rented, if it's your only transportation, if it's the middle of the night, or if you've borrowed it.

Ride safe, and keep your eye on the speedo.

--- D
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Old 10-12-2007, 11:25 AM   #2
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Wow, sucks to be you guys. Who gets to keep the $$$$$$ from you roadside justice?


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Old 10-12-2007, 11:51 AM   #3
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Yup, we discussed it, see here...

post 3431 onwards

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...06586&page=229

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Old 10-12-2007, 12:14 PM   #4
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Thumbs down

Welcome to Ontario. have a nice day. I guess it's off my todo list.
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Old 10-12-2007, 05:57 PM   #5
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I'm screwed now

I think I'm going to buy that 95 tooth rear sprocket, wheeliebars and disconect both brakes to keep my licence now.
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Old 10-13-2007, 05:04 AM   #6
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These rules apply to cars also, a biker died by a car around hear due to doing things listed in those rules. As long as it applies to cars also, I'm all for it.

Should this guy be on the road? http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_15445.aspx
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Old 10-13-2007, 11:36 AM   #7
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Wasn't there already a specific law for driving more than 50kph over the speed limit in Ontario?

I've had several conversations with traffic officers in the Thunder Bay district, where they kindly informed me that anything above 49kph over the speed limit required impounding the vehicle and putting the driver in jail. That was back in 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duster929

- driving more than 50kph (approx. 30mph) over the speed limit


Since the law came into effect, they've been impounding vehicles like it's going out of style (about 1 every 1/2 hour). I would bet the vast majority are for exceeding the speed limit by 50kph. So, 130 on a country road where the speed limit is 80, means your bike goes to a lockup for a week. And the attitude of the OPP is that they don't care if it's rented, if it's your only transportation, if it's the middle of the night, or if you've borrowed it.
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Old 10-13-2007, 11:47 AM   #8
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you can bet that the part pf the legislation that allows impoundment based on an officers judgment will come under legal challange, as well it should. In my opinion that obstructs due process and the presumption of innocence, but we'll see. This is the most disturbing part of the statute.

There is always legal recourse, if not a instituted appeals process, but it will involve lawers.

Intentions are all but impossible to prove, and cost alot of investigation $. While people may be charged, you can bet on very few convictions.

I wonder if people will consider civil action against police forces and government for the loss of use of licences and vehicles that are suspended/impounded when charges do not lead to convictions.

Will this be a criminal conviction, or civil? Diffrent standards of proof apply to obtain a conviction.
Lawers will love this law.
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Old 10-13-2007, 12:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwayne
you can bet that the part pf the legislation that allows impoundment based on an officers judgment will come under legal challange, as well it should. In my opinion that obstructs due process and the presumption of innocence, but we'll see. This is the most disturbing part of the statute.

There is always legal recourse, if not a instituted appeals process, but it will involve lawers.

Intentions are all but impossible to prove, and cost alot of investigation $. While people may be charged, you can bet on very few convictions.

I wonder if people will consider civil action against police forces and government for the loss of use of licences and vehicles that are suspended/impounded when charges do not lead to convictions.

Will this be a criminal conviction, or civil? Diffrent standards of proof apply to obtain a conviction.
Lawers will love this law.
Agreed.

Do you remember what happened when they proposed something similar here a while ago (although it may have been only with respect to DUI)?
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Old 10-13-2007, 08:41 PM   #10
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I responded to a post in a tread below called " up comming trip help?? " and had a few things to say about Ontario roads and speed limits. I was beat about the head and body by a Big Doug and another member from Grande Prairie for a while. When this law came into effect I posted the basic facts there and dared Big Doug to comment. Nothing to date.

Basically this law horrifies me. When I pass a big truck or a line of cars I go as fast as I reasonably can and then slow down. I do not speed for 100 miles but I do pass as fast as I reasonable can and than slow down quickly. It is common for me to be doing 30 MPH over for that distance. One of the problems with this law is that the police officer is the judge, jury and executioner. There is no due process. You have already suffered the penality before you get to court. It is too bad that the Liberals got re-elected in Ontario because that just guarantees that this law is staying put.

We are talking about a trip of about 2400 Km with a speed limit of about 50 MPH for almost all the trip. There are lots of cops on the road who are happy to explain this new law to you as they have your ride towed away. The roads are narrow, single lane highways that have few passing zones. There are maybe 100 small towns that have speed limits of 30 MPH for maybe 5 miles (for each town) on the trip also, you drive through all of them. Just of giggles your cell phone won't work for most of that trip too. My comment, and I think it is good advice, go through the US of A if your crossing Canada and want to make good time.

Northern Ontario is a poor area. Some of the cheapest realestate in Canada. The economy in all of Ontario isn't too good either. Wander if this will be good for the tourist business? Big problem is that the major population base is in Southern Ontario and these people don't even know that the north is there, or care. Seems to me that the north is just left out of the loop. As I kind of stated the roads are basically from the 1960's, no modern twinned highways till you get to the end at Ottawa.

Having said the above I must state the the ride around Lake Superior is great and there are other sites in Northern Ontario that are great to see. It is a large and remote area, many lakes and large rocks, Canadian Shield.

Frankly everyone up there speeds and I don't see how this will change. The distance is too great and the penalty for this law is too great. This will go away, or the police will quit towing moms mini van away after a while. I wonder how many real street racers the cops actually got? When this law was proposed to the public it was all about catching street racers. Catching an honest tax payer every half hour since this law was enacted will catch up with the cops sooner or later. I wager that most of the people charged are just like us, honest working people.
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
When this law was proposed to the public it was all about catching street racers.
Don't kid yourself.
This is all about political oppurtunism.
If you beleive that they are impounding a car every half hour, you should do the math.
The cops, and politicians are playing the media, and the media are just spewing out all the garbage they're being fed.
Why?
It makes for good news.
Street racing in Ontario is not now, nor has it ever been a problem.
Look at the numbers.
They've been quoting 35 deaths since 99, for the last 2yrs, due to street racing.
Since 99, roughly 25,000 peole have died in Canada, due to routine traffic accidents.
This is the real problem.
BTW, as much as I hate this political bullshit, if you don't do anything stupid (and you can still do 120 on the freeway), you will have no problem.
I'm pretty sure the sky ain't falling.
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:20 AM   #12
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The abrogation of rights in the lack of due process is what will kill this law, IMHO. If it doesn't, we've got bigger problems, a la 1984.
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Old 10-14-2007, 05:05 PM   #13
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...just when I was perfecting my stoppie technique on my '72 R60/5.

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Old 10-14-2007, 06:16 PM   #14
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So this is illegal?

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Old 10-14-2007, 06:34 PM   #15
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Question Illegal

Only if you get caught?
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