Ural and ammo boxes

[Mr Natural]

I'm new to this forum so I hope I'm posting in the right place. Thankfully, I've gotten past the NSA to make it this far. :-)

I've been riding a Patrol for a while now and want to increase it's carry. I've seen many of the pictures available with mounts on the hack, but I'm not so sure I want to get my weight to far forward.

What I have got is a mortar box and a cartridge box that I would like to mount as a set of saddle bags. Seems to me to be the most logical place to carry weight besides in the sidecar itself.

I've stopped by various fabricators with my ideas. The ones that restore Ferrari's are way to expensive. Others in another bike crowd have made me wonder if they can support anything, especially that involves weight on an off road bike. Still some forget that the swing arm,,,well swings.

Well here is my plan. If I create 2 "J" shaped straps, attaching them to the top shock mount and the rear fender mount, replacing the ohsht passenger handles, they should provide the lower support for the next two straps.

If I affix two straps to the passenger seat holes on the fender(I just have a chrome rack there) bringing the straps out 1" past the shocks, 90 down to the height of the J straps and 90 in towards the j straps to be welded.
These would provide, 4 mounting holes for the boxes, being supported by two separate places of about 5" difference. I am wondering if this might be a reasonable amount of support to keep the flap factor from happening on the first good sized bump.

Any thoughts on the topic or better ways?

[kliff]

You might also think about coming up with a mount from the passenger peg/muffler hanger, for a bottom support, to prevent flapping. I've never mounted a set of boxes like that, so I'm not even sure of the feasibility of my suggestion....just kinda ramblin....

[Mr Natural]

Thought about the peg also but couldn't come up with a routing that would be easy and allow the peg to be used. It might not need it with my idea, but if get others into the mind melt, I think it will happen. I just think it makes the second most sensible and aesthetic place to mount weight. Thinking and thanks.

[kliff]

When you get started, take pics, plenty of pics. It might be something someone else wants to do sometime. And pics are the universal language for "tinkerers."

[notarex]

Where are you located?

[Mr Natural]

winery ho

[Gummiente]

Originally Posted by Mr Natural

What I have got is a mortar box and a cartridge box that I would like to mount as a set of saddle bags. Seems to me to be the most logical place to carry weight besides in the sidecar itself.

I experimented with ammo boxes mounted on the left rear fender of both my Dnepr and Tourist. I used split shaft collars welded to metal tabs, with the collars clamped around the rear fender rail. I also had two more metal tabs coming off the threaded bolts in the Ural's rear fender luggage rack and extending down to the side of the 7.62mm ammo box, so it was secured at 4 points.

There were a few inherent problems with this setup, the biggest one being the thin sheet metal used on the sidewalls of the ammo box. Because of the constant vibration, stress cracks would occur in the metal around the mounting holes, regardless of the size of fender washers used on the mounting bolts, and eventually they would spider their way across the entire side of the box. The solution would have been to weld a large metal plate to the side of the box, which was more trouble than I wanted to deal with.

The second issue was that the box had to mounted high enough so as to allow the rear wheel to be removed without having to take the ammo box off first. This restricted the size of the box to the 7.62mm NATO standard, which meant that carrying capacity was limited to small items like sunglasses, a can of WD-40, a map and other items that weren't susceptible to getting bounced around in there.

After going through three ammo boxes, all of them eventually trashed because of the sress cracks, I said screw it and went with a 20mm mortar ammo box mounted to the front right of the sidecar. Whatever weight I put in there has no effect on the sidecar handling and the thick rubber spacers and oversized fender washers used on the mounting points make for a solid mounting that has yet to show any signs of cracking or other damage.

[Mr Natural]

That was very helpful.
Requirements now are, they have to be easily removed and well supported to prevent cracking.

One suggestion given to me was to bend a large plate with 2-90 degree bends that would set over the luggage rack and extend down the side of the ammo box. Still would need something to keep them from flapping. I shied away from the idea due to the weight, but it might be the only solution that would work.

[Gummiente]

Originally Posted by Mr Natural

That was very helpful.
Requirements now are, they have to be easily removed and well supported to prevent cracking.

One suggestion given to me was to bend a large plate with 2-90 degree bends that would set over the luggage rack and extend down the side of the ammo box. Still would need something to keep them from flapping. I shied away from the idea due to the weight, but it might be the only solution that would work.

Keep in mind that the lip of the ammo box lid extends down the sides of the ammo box a couple inches, so if using this idea you'd either have to mount the boxes very high on the plate to allow the lids clearance to operate, or use spacers between the box and the plate... which brings you right back to the whole stress crack issue.

Prhaps if the plates were bent in such a way as to clear the sides of the box and support them from underneath? That way four bolts could be used through the bottom of the ammo box, which is thicker and more rigid than the sides, to secure it to the plate. If said plate was then bolted or clamped to the luggage rack, then all you'd need to do is remove those bolts/clamps and pull the entire bracket and ammo boxes off in one go.

[kliff]

Originally Posted by Mr Natural

Thought about the peg also but couldn't come up with a routing that would be easy and allow the peg to be used. It might not need it with my idea, but if get others into the mind melt, I think it will happen. I just think it makes the second most sensible and aesthetic place to mount weight. Thinking and thanks.

Your question started me thinking, and that lead to some fabbing.....not sure this meets all your requirements...

But does this wet your whistle MrN ?







We're always stirrin' the pot, modifyin', and generrally havin' a good time on the RIMC with Urals.
http://russianiron.com/ironforums.htm

[Mr Natural]

Still at the thinking stage. My right box is twice the size of yours and well the left is a mortar box, so 4 times as big. I might have to scale back. Lets see how they work for you.

[kliff]

Mortar box...



.50 cal box...





and yet another .30 cal box....

[Mr Natural]

Looks like a 30cal saddle bag.
Looks like the same bracket will work for 50cal boxes, right? Think it will work?
Will you make one for the other side?

If you are happy with the results and start manufacturing, put me down for a left and right side brackets.

I believe I'm overboard trying to use a mortarbox for a saddlebag, with more fitment problems.

[kliff]

Sorry MrN, I really am not interested in getting into trhe manufacturing aspect, I just make what I need/want. Then take pics to possibly help anyone else with ideas for their projects.

.50 cal should work with brackets like these, but being wider, and exerting more leverage/stress on the skin of the box might mean lighter loads than the .30 cal box could handle. Just something to think about.

[Mr Natural]

I should be able to take the pics to a machine shop and come up with the prototypes. I'll should make up drawings for prosperity.

I'm not much a tinkerer anymore. Main goal is scaling back my holdings to a RV, a car, and the Ural. The Ural being more of a long term camping vehicle for Baja.

Another task for a 50cal box is turning one into a small grill for charcole, to be losely attached.

Thanks again,