ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-24-2007, 02:36 AM   #31
bmwktmbill
Traveler
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Traveler
Oddometer: 4,961
DB,
The seal on the end of the crank that is mounted in the clutch case should be replaced no matter what if you have that case off for inspection. If it fails, no oil pressure to the crank and then you will rebuild your engine for sure.
Easy to over look this one. I did and had to tear ir apart again for peace of mind.
b.
__________________
'02 KTM 640 Adventure-lowered
"On the road there are no special cases."
Cormack McCarthy-The Crossing

The faster it goes the faster it breaks.
And high performance=high maintenance.
Bill Shockley
bmwktmbill is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 10:02 PM   #32
Dotbond OP
Africa, Africa
 
Dotbond's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Dunedin. New Zealand
Oddometer: 754
Update time. Got new cam and bearings and seals and numerous other bits and pieces. I have tipped a couple of engine fulls of oil thru the motor and let it drain out. No metal in the last drain. Took the clutch cover off and pulled out the clutch plates as well. No metal there either. I poked my magnetic tipped pointy thing in all the holes i could find but only got some metal in the "oil bath" that is right under the cam on top of the head.
I got the bike shop to change the inlet cam follower bearing, the shaft was knackered completely as you can see below, but did the exhaust bearing myself.

Pictures of how i did it to follow.


I drilled one end of the bearing shaft around where the press mark was that spread out the end to stop it from moving. This was to relieve some pressure according to my theory.

I got a socket with an end smaller in diameter than the shaft and another socket wider than the shaft and put them in a
vice and pressed the shaft out as per the dodgey photo below. The new shaft and bearing just slide into position and i went round both ends of the shaft with a dot punch to secure the shaft in place. Sorry no photos of that last bit.


Also replaced the water pump seal and bearings, not that they needed changing as there was not any wear on the shaft. Assembled it all last night and now waiting for the rocker cover sealant to cure for a day or 3.
Will fire the bike up on Friday hopefully and do some hot oil changes.
__________________
2012 KTM 690 R
2010 KTM 990 R (Sold)

2008 N.Z.Yamaha Safari: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306905
2007 N.Z.Adventures Safari: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201557

Dotbond screwed with this post 12-17-2007 at 10:47 PM
Dotbond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 11:00 PM   #33
gunnerbuck
Island Hopper
 
gunnerbuck's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: N.V.I, B.C.
Oddometer: 4,037
Thanks for the update.. I'll say that shaft is toast....

Hopefully that'll be the end of your problems...

Good Luck...
gunnerbuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 12:10 AM   #34
bmwktmbill
Traveler
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Traveler
Oddometer: 4,961
DB,
Neat trick to push the shaft out.
Good luck,
b
__________________
'02 KTM 640 Adventure-lowered
"On the road there are no special cases."
Cormack McCarthy-The Crossing

The faster it goes the faster it breaks.
And high performance=high maintenance.
Bill Shockley
bmwktmbill is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2007, 12:31 AM   #35
Dotbond OP
Africa, Africa
 
Dotbond's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Dunedin. New Zealand
Oddometer: 754
And another update.
Got the bike all assembled with fresh oil and filters and have ridden the bike for about 1 hour. I then drained the oil out of the motor only via the 2 drain bolts, didn't worry about the downtube. There was some fine metal on the screened drainplug and the actually magnetic parts as well but sod all. And about 3 flecks of metal in the oil itself. Have put fresh oil into it ready for another ride where I will do the same again.

Merry Xmas.
__________________
2012 KTM 690 R
2010 KTM 990 R (Sold)

2008 N.Z.Yamaha Safari: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306905
2007 N.Z.Adventures Safari: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201557
Dotbond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2007, 01:02 AM   #36
gunnerbuck
Island Hopper
 
gunnerbuck's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: N.V.I, B.C.
Oddometer: 4,037
Sounds good D.B. and Merry Christmas to you...

David...
gunnerbuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2007, 12:51 AM   #37
bmwktmbill
Traveler
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Traveler
Oddometer: 4,961
DB,
Thaks for the updates.
Nice job.
b.
__________________
'02 KTM 640 Adventure-lowered
"On the road there are no special cases."
Cormack McCarthy-The Crossing

The faster it goes the faster it breaks.
And high performance=high maintenance.
Bill Shockley
bmwktmbill is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 04:19 PM   #38
Dotbond OP
Africa, Africa
 
Dotbond's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Dunedin. New Zealand
Oddometer: 754
And another update. The bike has done over 2000km since the new cam and bearings. I have just pulled the rocker cover off and inspected the new bits. All is well with the repair.
__________________
2012 KTM 690 R
2010 KTM 990 R (Sold)

2008 N.Z.Yamaha Safari: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306905
2007 N.Z.Adventures Safari: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201557
Dotbond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 02:56 PM   #39
braaap!
waiting for the big one
 
braaap!'s Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne
Oddometer: 2,359
bingo Dotbond!



same happened to my top end at about 30000kms... after a dealer service!

Full rebuild followed at their expense as the bike was still just within warranty... and the fact that I'd heard on the grapevine, that the mechanic 'had trouble' setting the clearances at the last service ...

Rebuild took 4 months though!



I think this damage begins to happens if the oil change 'burb' is forgotten.... or there was a batch of crap bearing / bushes.... or... shit happens.

I'm at 40000kms with no probs.

Good luck with yours
braaap! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2008, 04:05 PM   #40
Dotbond OP
Africa, Africa
 
Dotbond's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Dunedin. New Zealand
Oddometer: 754
braap: Looks familiar! Lucky your bike was still under warranty. Good luck with yours as well. I sometimes wonder if it occured because i was running slightly heavier oil 15W40 instead of a 10W50. Who would know!
__________________
2012 KTM 690 R
2010 KTM 990 R (Sold)

2008 N.Z.Yamaha Safari: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306905
2007 N.Z.Adventures Safari: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201557
Dotbond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2008, 05:50 AM   #41
braaap!
waiting for the big one
 
braaap!'s Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne
Oddometer: 2,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotbond
braap: Looks familiar! Lucky your bike was still under warranty. Good luck with yours as well. I sometimes wonder if it occured because i was running slightly heavier oil 15W40 instead of a 10W50. Who would know!
not me! I put fuel in and tjust wist the throttle making stupid noises

seems like the motor could use better oil feed up there though....

I was amazed... as the bike got real hard to start in Esperance... would fire tickling the deco...

ran all the way back across the nullabor at 120+ kms.. back to Clare in SA. Van'd it home and checked the valve lash WTF

I hope the 09' 690A doesn't have the same probs!

cheers!
braaap! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2010, 05:14 AM   #42
Tseta
Lost
 
Tseta's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Finland
Oddometer: 669
Aftermarket camshaft bearings

This is an old thread, I know. I am bumping it to the top as it seems to be “the go-to thread” about camshafts, cam roller bearings and camshaft bearings, indexed in the mighty LC4-thread.

I wish to share the results of some research into aftermarket sources of the cam area bearings. KTM lists the various bearings as follows:

58036061090 ROCKER ARM ROLLER CPL. INTAKE
58336061090 ROCKER ARM ROLLER CPL. EXHAUST
0625060040 GROOVED BALL BEARING TMB004
58036097000 NEEDLE BEARING BK 2012

Now, it has been speculated that there doesn’t exist any aftermarket source for the rocker arm rollers. According to my research, this truly and unfortunately seems to be the case.

A needle bearing, BK2012, is a fairly common one and should be readily available. Even more common would be a HK2012 needle bearing (easily available through many industrial suppliers). HK series bearings are with both ends open, BK series bearings have one blind end. These two are basically considered interchangeable, as the dimensions (except mass, of course), limiting speeds, load factors etc. are identical for both types of bearings.

Some sources:
BK2012, with a blind end
&
HK2012, with an open end.

For full disclosure’s sake, it was Jarno’s (Seikkailu_R) view that the camshaft may have some more axial play (possibly leading to some steel/aluminum contact) with the open, HK-series bearing. The blind end of the BK-series bearing may also protect it better from excess sealant squeezeout when assembling the cylinder head top section.

The grooved ball bearing TMB004 is an interesting anomaly. KTM’s part number nomenclature/logic gives us some more information: most ball bearings have a part number starting with 06250, followed by a 4 or 5-number standard bearing code. Take the front wheel bearings of my LC4 Adv, for example: 0625069068 GR.BALL BEAR.6906 DDU2CG23S6NM. The KTM part number contains the 6906-part as the standard bearing code. Keeping this in mind, it would seem that the TMB004 is actually a 6004 deep groove ball bearing. This would seem to hold true based on the bearing measurements of a removed TMB004 compared to a new 6004. The removed TMB-unit even uses the same plastic/rubber seals as the 6004, even with the same markings. Interestingly, though, the TMB is explicitly marked on the outer race as a TMB004 bearing. So this led me to research it further.

It seems that TMB is NTN (a bearing manufacturer) nomenclature for a special bearing. Read more about it here. These types of bearings seem to be designed with demanding use in mind: long service life even with contaminated lubrication, optimized heat treatment for improved cracking resistance etc.

It also seems that these TMB-bearings are OEM application only. The local NTN supplier was aware of the existence of these types of bearings, but informed me that “it is not possible to order replacement bearings with the TMB-code through NTN.” It was the NTN-bearing technician’s view, though, that in this application, a regular 6004 bearing with C3 (greater than normal) internal clearance would be adequate. It does seem plausible, as KTM uses similar 6004 bearings with C3 or even larger C4 clearance in numerous applications (mainly transmission and camshaft bearings):

0625060041 BALL BEARING 6004 TN9
0625060042 BALL BEARING 6004 TN9 C4
0625060043 BALL BEARING 6004 NR C3 ´05
0625160040 GROOVED BALL BEAR. TM 16004 C3
0625204213 BALL BEARING 6004 C4 N


As the bearing turns…

-Tseta
Tseta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 05:02 PM   #43
windaddiction
Ditch Finder
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Van island, British Columbia
Oddometer: 8
Thanks for the info.... lol had the same problem.... just waiting for parts. My exhaust one went *sigh
Attached Images
 
windaddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2011, 06:11 PM   #44
clintnz
Trans-Global Chook Chaser
 
clintnz's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: Rotoiti, New Zealand
Oddometer: 3,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tseta View Post

A needle bearing, BK2012, is a fairly common one and should be readily available. Even more common would be a HK2012 needle bearing (easily available through many industrial suppliers). HK series bearings are with both ends open, BK series bearings have one blind end. These two are basically considered interchangeable, as the dimensions (except mass, of course), limiting speeds, load factors etc. are identical for both types of bearings.
IIRC when I 1st did the cam bearings at 50K km, we took out the original BK & the replacement genuine KTM part supplied by the dealer was an HK.

Interesting about the other cam bearing, I got the genuine part at 50K, for the 95K rebuild I just got one from SKF. Will monitor & report back with wear analysis at 135K

Cheers
Clint
__________________
'03 KTM 640 LC4 Enduro

The wilderness, the desert - why are they not crowded
.................................................. .....with pilgrims?
clintnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2011, 05:55 AM   #45
DaBit
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Netherlands
Oddometer: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tseta View Post
The grooved ball bearing TMB004 is an interesting anomaly.
I found that out myself already. But let's face it: that bearing doesn't need to be replaced often. And KTM-labeled bearings are not that much more expensive than similar quality generic ones.

Being able to buy the required bearings and seals at the local shop is nice, especially for the wheel/linkage parts. But once you want/need to replace the camshaft bearings you probably need to order some other KTM parts anyway.

Offtopic: I also wondered why this bearing is a double side sealed type? Plenty of oil makes it to the bearing location, so I'd say use that oil....

Quote:
It was the NTN-bearing technician’s view, though, that in this application, a regular 6004 bearing with C3 (greater than normal) internal clearance would be adequate.
..
It does seem plausible, as KTM uses similar 6004 bearings in numerous applications
In my book that's called 'not plausible' since even for an OEM it's easier and cheaper to use a standard bearing than a custom one. So there must be a good reason for that TMB004 specialty thingie.

BTW: when I replaced the camshaft-end needle bearing, I got the blind-end version from KTM.
DaBit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014