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Old 12-19-2012, 10:45 AM   #91
Ned1
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I concur, nice idea. I didn't like the punch approach when I went through all that LC4 cam and valve drive rebuild on my SXC.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:46 PM   #92
Sparrowhawk
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Stupid question(s).

I was following a louder than normal mechanical noise that seemed to be coming from the top end of my 2000 LC4 with 25,000+ miles and figured it was the cam followers going south. I ordered up all the parts to replace the follower bearings and rebuilding the water pump and took off the valve cover. The follower bearings feel good but the large ball bearing on the cam has a full 1/16" of play (the cam moves up/down & side to side 1/16" with the bearing in place). I had never heard of that happening but I'm glad I caught it before it exploded. Both cam bearings are now added to the Munn order.

First stupid question. The cam bearing is stamped from Taiwan. Do you think this could be OEM or is it more likely previous owners switched out and went cheap?

Second stupid question. Since I have it apart and new follower bearings coming by FedEx I will go ahead and change them out for my peace of mind. What isn't obvious to me is how to remove the rocker arm shafts. There doesn't seem to be anything holding them in place except friction of the O-ring but there doesn't seem to be any easy way to push them out. Any hints?


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Old 03-05-2013, 02:53 PM   #93
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The rocker shafts are a stepped shaft so only remove in one direction, they are held in place by the bolts holding the cam box in place (so nothing is holding them in place now) but have a O ring on them that makes them feel "tight". A sharp tap in the right direction is all you need.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:31 PM   #94
Darryl625
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I have a question regarding the o ring on the rocker shaft. Can the o ring be changed without disassembling the top end. Just slide out enough to slip the old one off and new one on? Or are there shims on the rocker arms that may drop off the shaft?
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:12 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl625 View Post
I have a question regarding the o ring on the rocker shaft. Can the o ring be changed without disassembling the top end. Just slide out enough to slip the old one off and new one on? Or are there shims on the rocker arms that may drop off the shaft?
Yes, there are shims, I'm not sure if the shims will fall off the shaft in that space. If your worried about an oil leak from the shaft ends I would just use a line of sealant around the end of the shaft rather than trying to change the O ring, it's not a pressurised part of the oil system.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:15 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl625 View Post
I have a question regarding the o ring on the rocker shaft. Can the o ring be changed without disassembling the top end. Just slide out enough to slip the old one off and new one on? Or are there shims on the rocker arms that may drop off the shaft?
Yes you can slide the rocker shaft out far enough to change the O-rings without the shims dropping off, but just barely... The exhaust shaft is the one that you must be the most careful with, the intake has a little more lateral movement before the shaft comes clear of the inner pocket...
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:36 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk View Post
I was following a louder than normal mechanical noise that seemed to be coming from the top end of my 2000 LC4 with 25,000+ miles and figured it was the cam followers going south. I ordered up all the parts to replace the follower bearings and rebuilding the water pump and took off the valve cover. The follower bearings feel good but the large ball bearing on the cam has a full 1/16" of play (the cam moves up/down & side to side 1/16" with the bearing in place). I had never heard of that happening but I'm glad I caught it before it exploded. Both cam bearings are now added to the Munn order.
That cam bearing went out on my bike too. I caught it when it started making noise, and the valve clearances had opened way up.

You should be able to get a small punch or wood dowel angled in the holes at the end of those rocker shafts to push them out.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:24 AM   #98
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Thanks for the feed back regarding the o ring on the cam shaft only the intake side o ring is weeping nothing to worry about at the moment just gives me the shits.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:52 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotbond View Post

Did a weekend ride and tappit noise came back about 100km into the ride.
Didn't think much of it.
Just pulled the rocker cover and the inlet cam follower bearing had siezed and has worn the inlet cam lobe about 1mm.
What to do??


Bike has done 15,500km. Regular oil and filter changes changes. 2004 model.
Not 100% sure but is there a mod/update that states removing seal from roller bearing on cam?,hope all goes good with repair,wouldnt hurt to renew seal on end of crank (lhs)costs sub $20 any internal leakage on this seal will destroy crank>top end,if its bad enough.Looks like you will have fair bit of debri/paste floating around the frame resivor/ engine worth giving a good clean/flush,make sure by pass slug/piston isnt jammed from debri
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:03 AM   #100
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Thanks for the advice on getting the rocker arm shafts removed. I have had negative experiences using force to take things apart when it didn't look like there was anything holding them together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnno950 View Post
Not 100% sure but is there a mod/update that states removing seal from roller bearing on cam?
I'd read that and understand that different owners have found both sealed and unsealed ball bearings in place. I'll be interested to see what shows up as the KTM part. It could make a difference and not to just the cam bearing.

The camshaft sits in a little oil reservoir on top of the head. The reservoir is 1.7 cm deep except in the area on the roller bearing side where it is only 0.6 cm to the top of the machined slot where the bearing sits. (See the photos below.) With a sealed bearing the oil would be held at the higher level while an unsealed bearing would let the oil drain to the lower level. I'm not sure if it makes a big deal but it would change the amount of oil the cam lobes sit in.



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Old 03-06-2013, 10:46 AM   #101
tdreyer
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I just went out and looked at the cam bearings I replaced from my 2 previous intake roller failures. The 2 big roller bearings i have are both marked "Japan" and came in a KTM box. They are also sealed on both sides. The smaller needle bearings are both marked "Germany". I think a PO must have replaced that bearing in the past?

Maybe it's just the pic but that intake roller looks scored? Both of mine were locked up and ground up themselves and the intake lobe of the camshaft.

Good call, in my book, on going ahead and replacing those rollers. Are you going to rebuild the water pump as well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk View Post
I was following a louder than normal mechanical noise that seemed to be coming from the top end of my 2000 LC4 with 25,000+ miles and figured it was the cam followers going south. I ordered up all the parts to replace the follower bearings and rebuilding the water pump and took off the valve cover. The follower bearings feel good but the large ball bearing on the cam has a full 1/16" of play (the cam moves up/down & side to side 1/16" with the bearing in place). I had never heard of that happening but I'm glad I caught it before it exploded. Both cam bearings are now added to the Munn order.

First stupid question. The cam bearing is stamped from Taiwan. Do you think this could be OEM or is it more likely previous owners switched out and went cheap?

Second stupid question. Since I have it apart and new follower bearings coming by FedEx I will go ahead and change them out for my peace of mind. What isn't obvious to me is how to remove the rocker arm shafts. There doesn't seem to be anything holding them in place except friction of the O-ring but there doesn't seem to be any easy way to push them out. Any hints?


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Old 03-06-2013, 11:21 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdreyer View Post
Maybe it's just the pic but that intake roller looks scored? Both of mine were locked up and ground up themselves and the intake lobe of the camshaft.

Good call, in my book, on going ahead and replacing those rollers. Are you going to rebuild the water pump as well?
The photo of the rocker arms isn't mine. I stole it from an earlier post just for illustration. My rollers look and feel good as new but I'm still changing them out since I have the cover off. The water pump rebuild is on the to-do list for the same reason - cheap insurance against a failure in the middle of a future long trip.

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Old 03-06-2013, 02:20 PM   #103
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Thoughts on the sealed camshaft bearings...............

When I did the camshaft bearings on my 520 EXC, I found the bearing to be shielded, not sealed. I thought this odd as this was the first time I had run into a bearing done like that inside a motor.

I did a little experiment to see if the shielded bearing would get oil. I put enough engine oil in a cup, then tossed the shielded bearing in the cup and bubbles immediatley started coming out of the bearing..........so oil was getting into the balls very quickly. I installed the new bearings with the shields on.

That was years ago and the 520 has 100's of hours on it since then.

A couple of things I learned afterward...........sealed bearings are like what you would use in a wheel bearing........the only lube they get is what is packed in them.

Shielded bearings are used to keep the debris out, but let oil/lube inside to the balls and are common inside motors.

If the new bearings come with a shield, I would leave it in place and install the bearings that way.

Cheers
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:13 PM   #104
Sparrowhawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droptarotter View Post
A couple of things I learned afterward...........sealed bearings are like what you would use in a wheel bearing........the only lube they get is what is packed in them.

Shielded bearings are used to keep the debris out, but let oil/lube inside to the balls and are common inside motors.

If the new bearings come with a shield, I would leave it in place and install the bearings that way.

Cheers
The replacement cam bearing, KTM part # 0625060040 pictured below, came as an NTN 6004LU. NTN describes this as a "single row radial ball bearing 600 series, pressed steel cage, double lip contact rubber seal one side, Shell Dolium R" Dolium R is a bearing grease made by Shell. Cross references for the bearing include SKF 6004 RSJ (old RS1) and NSK 6004DU. All of these indicate a one-sided seal. The bearing itself, however, has an identical looking rubber seal and markings on both sides. Go figure. In it goes.


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Old 03-17-2013, 03:24 PM   #105
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SKF for the Cam

I've been running an SKF cam bearing for over 30K KM with little issue... Below is a spiel taken from my rebuild thread:


I did a little research on the cam ball bearing {6004} and found out that the same bearing in the NTN brand are also used as wheel bearings in some Honda motorcycles... These bearings when ordered for the Honda application also have the TMB 004 stamp on the outer race.... With this info I called the bearing shop and let him run the numbers and he came back with the SKF 6004-2rsh/c3 as a direct replacement... So we'll give her a go and see if the price saving was worth it....


Here are the new cam related parts ...
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