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Old 11-21-2007, 02:42 AM   #1
opposedcyljunkie OP
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Bluhduh Shimming oil filters -- 92 GSPD

Had a continuous 40min high speed run last week at 105F heat. As i coasted to a stop, the dreaded oil lamp started flickering at idle. Shut off the engine immediately. Let the bike cool down and rode at a leisurely pace going home. Lamp never came on again. Had a chance to do some investigating today and found:

- filter cover had freash oil stains around it
- oil level was OK
- opened cover and measured cannister depth at 4.3mm
- present were 1 shim, $2000 o-ring, black o-ring and a f**king paper gasket (not me, trusted indy mechanic did the last oil and filter change, and believe me, this will be his last on this bike)

Obviously, I had a loss of oil pressure with engine and oil (20W-50) very hot. Removed paper gasket (0.4mm thick) and placed 2 metal shims and new filter/o-rings. Doing a garage test (stormy weather here so I couldn't ride the bike), my 5-bar VDO pressure gauge showed much better readings. But as the engine heated up, the gauge showed 1.5 bars at idle, and the engine isn't even near operating temp. Snowbum says that at operating temps, the oil pressure should 1-1.5 bars. Anything lower than 1 bar may mean trouble.

My question is -- considering the unusual depth of my filter cannister, how many metal shims can I install on the filter to add more compression to the white o-ring? I have a strange feeling that at operating temps, my pressure would still fall below 1 bar, and that I still need to add at least one more shim. Still not enough pressure on the o-ring (coupled with some loss of oil viscosity due to heat) may cause some pressure loss.

As an aside, The cannister depth on the right side measured 4.3mm, while on the left side roughly 4.1mm. Obviously, the cannister isn't dead-straight. Would this be a problem on the white o-ring being compressed a bit more on one side?
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Old 11-21-2007, 03:29 AM   #2
FR700
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Should have kept your Bonnie .

At least the Pommy POS didn't suffer from this crap .


I know it doesn't help .



.
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:32 AM   #3
Bernd Bauer
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shims

Quote:
As an aside, The cannister depth on the right side measured 4.3mm, while on the left side roughly 4.1mm. Obviously, the cannister isn't dead-straight. Would this be a problem on the white o-ring being compressed a bit more on one side?
it is the same on my GS, but I never had a problem with the white O-ring.

On your GS the cannister depth should 3.5 to 3.8 mm (those figures are given by HPN). If I remember correctly then a shim is about 0.3mm thick. So you should be fine with 2 shims. (4.3mm - 0.6mm = 3.7mm)

But you have to measure it yourself anyway...


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Old 11-21-2007, 05:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FR700
Should have kept your Bonnie .

At least the Pommy POS didn't suffer from this crap .


I know it doesn't help .



.

maybe i'm a dummy when it comes to brit bikes but i never got my bonnie fully-sorted out even if i had dumped loads of cash on it. it never really gave me as much satisfaction as my boxers. my tooth fillings would fall out from the vibration...
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Old 11-21-2007, 05:13 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernd Bauer
it is the same on my GS, but I never had a problem with the white O-ring.

On your GS the cannister depth should 3.5 to 3.8 mm (those figures are given by HPN). If I remember correctly then a shim is about 0.3mm thick. So you should be fine with 2 shims. (4.3mm - 0.6mm = 3.7mm)

But you have to measure it yourself anyway...


Regards

Bernd

now back to the topic

and if i still get low pressure readings? is it alright to use 3 or more shims?
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Old 11-22-2007, 01:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opposedcyljunkie
now back to the topic

and if i still get low pressure readings? is it alright to use 3 or more shims?
It is possible to use three shims but I wouldn't recomend it. Get someone to make a canister with the correct length.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=30
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Old 11-22-2007, 01:30 AM   #7
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Hi AliBaba. I was exchanging emails with Tom Cutter and he mentioned to "use as many metal shims as I want". I guess that actually meant as much as 3-4 shims. From your link, your cannister is even more recessed at 4.6mm (mine is 4.3mm). Does 1 metal shim work for you? I put in 2 but haven't had the chance to do a roadtest.
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Old 11-22-2007, 03:39 AM   #8
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Mine measured the same as yours and one shim wasnt compressing the O ring much .The kits I bought hade a black O ring which is smaller than the white one

I put in two shims and the o ring is looking a bit better , but it still doesnt look as compressed as the white ones that used to come out of my R 75/7.
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Old 11-22-2007, 03:57 AM   #9
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yeah, I have my doubts even with 2 shims at that cannister depth. I'll ride today and post my experiences. Maybe 3 shims would do it. Thing is, once opened, the white o-ring cannot be put back in and re-used, no matter how little mileage it has.
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Old 11-22-2007, 03:58 AM   #10
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Adding up with shims is much better then doing nothing. When I had this problem I checked with several companies in Germany and none of them recommended using multiple shims as a long time solution.
As I saw it there were two solutions:

1) Remove the canister and inspect/replace before you install it to correct depth
2) Get a canister with the correct length so it bottoms in the block

Personally I went for the second solution which I think is the safest. Adding up with shims might work (carry extra shims on the bike) but if you really depend on not getting stranded somewhere I wouldn’t have done it. You have a problem; fix the problems not the symptoms!

I’ve heard the name Tom Cutter but I don’t know anything about him, personally I would have used Motoren Israel or HPN for advices on such an important problem.

You can buy a tube optimized for your bike and it costs 29€, or make it yourself..
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Old 11-22-2007, 04:16 AM   #11
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Ali, how easy (or hard) is it to replace the cannister? I agree for a long-term and correct solution. If I have to tear down the engine, then it may not be an option for now. Another thing, if the original cannister is up to spec, then the same thing might happen again. I need to understand this more, on why the cannister recedes into the crankcase, etc. You also mentioned buying a cannister of the "correct length". Are they available with varying lengths for the 100GS?

Tom Cutter is one of the few respected "Gurus" on airheads in the US, much like Snowbum and Oak Okleshen are.
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Old 11-22-2007, 06:00 AM   #12
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I did it in less then a day, including finding a guy that could make me a new canister. The hard part is to remove the old canister, heat is the keyword!
If you lay your bike on the left cylinder you don’t even have to drain the oil…

If you replace the canister with a new one (from BMW) you might get the same problem later because the BMW-canister does not reach the bottom of the engine-block. That’s why you need to have a longer canister especially made for your engine. A canister that reaches the bottom of the engineblock is not able to move!

The canisters are not available in different lengths from BMW so you have to get someone to make it, or you can get in contact with Motoren Israel in Germany.

It looks like BMWs idea was to make the canister a bit short (standard length) and then press it into the engineblock until the distance between the canister and engineblock was ca 3.5 mm. Normally this is good enough but from time to time it’s not.
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Old 11-22-2007, 09:54 AM   #13
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thanks for the great advise. looks like something i will have to do in the not-so-distant future. i was thinking of precisely measuring the cannister i have, pulling it out, and having some "shims" or spacers welded on its bottom to take up the few millimeters needed (if that's even possible). i may even have to do that with a new cannister from motorrad israel anyway.

btw, i did a high-speed evening run (in 25C weather) and got my oil pressure at idle afterwards are 1 bar. oil lamp never came on considering its high cut-out of 0.5 bar. we may have (sort of) solved the problem.
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:11 PM   #14
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Metal gasket

I always thought the important thing was making sure that one felt there was compression of the $2000 white o- ring taking place when you put the cover on. i.e. the cover went on with some amount of pressure that you could feel (like you were lightly squeezing the white o-ring)- not too hard but not so easy that there was no resistance when you put it on and put the three bolts in. If too easy add a reasonable # of shims - if too hard take some out or maybe you have the wrong filter or shouldn't be using the paper gasket, etc.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:59 AM   #15
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yes, but you have to know how much that o-ring is being compressed. one just can't do it by feel. there are high oil pressures in there. too little compression and the oil weeps out of the o-ring and starves the engine. too much and there's o-ring failure. why didn't bmw just install one of those damn spin-on oil filters?? my take is that due to filter differences between cooler and non-cooler models, they needed to save money on the configuartion.

at my cannister depth of of 4.3mm, installing a paper gasket would lead to disaster! the ideal o-ring compression should be around 20% of its diameter. measured at 4mm, that should be at 3mm compressed. i will be needing at least 3 metal shims to get a 15% compression on my o-ring. a 4th o-ring would bring it to nearly 23% compression.
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opposedcyljunkie screwed with this post 11-23-2007 at 01:10 AM
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