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Old 08-01-2009, 02:03 PM   #46
stickfigure OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clover
Now I need a way to travel with my luggages, but if I buy panniers, I don't want to leave them and my back end on the side of the road...

On my way to weld it for a second time, nearly the same spots, I'm not sure I really want to go for a third breakage...

The Bike is a 2007 and can be considered mostly as new with 20 000kms on it.
My conclusion, after 20k miles in Central America with a 640Adv, Pelican 1550s, and a Happy Trails rack, is that the 640A is *NOT* up to handling hard panniers. At least, not if you ride the bike the way it's supposed to be ridden. The subframe is just not beefy enough. Compare it to a 990A subframe sometime.

Get a set of soft bags, adopt a more minimalist travel style, and ride the hell of out of the bike.

Jeff
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Old 08-01-2009, 08:08 PM   #47
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When I look at those images, I can't stop saying to myself: "poor subframe".... I travel with less than what they carry! And it broke. Are their subframe modified? Are they riding smoothly ?? Or my subframe is a friday made one? My friend have a DRZ and carry about same amount of luggage and his subframe never cry.......

Clover screwed with this post 08-02-2009 at 08:55 AM
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:14 PM   #48
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The subframe on my 640 has stood up to a lot and has yet to give me any problems... The amount of weight I have asked it to carry is quite high when you think of the rider, passenger and all the camping gear for 2 people.... And this isn't just HWY travel as a huge amount of my 100,000 KM has come from riding choppy backroads and trails....

The design of the pannier racks come into play here as they add another strut which should help to strengthen the stock assembly to take on the extra weight.... Where my subframe has remained trouble free I have had my racks crack from fatigue and had them rewelded several times...
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:19 AM   #49
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While rack design is a big problem (mine practically disintegrated), the subframe is at least partially to blame because the boltholes are so small. Yes, there are extra struts but still 95% of the load is placed on the bolts that go into the subframe (mine sheared over and over again) and the metal crossover piece.

Put it this way... if the rack is sturdy enough not to fail, the subframe will be the next part to go.

BTW, the DRZ subframe isn't any better. It's made of aluminum so it will break at the weak points and then be almost impossible to weld:



Those little tabs are way too easy to break.

There are just not the bikes you want to take on trips two up and loaded with gear! I did a couple short rides on the 640A two-up out of necessity, and I can't imagine taking a serious trip that way.
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Old 08-02-2009, 02:12 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickfigure
While rack design is a big problem (mine practically disintegrated), the subframe is at least partially to blame because the boltholes are so small. Yes, there are extra struts but still 95% of the load is placed on the bolts that go into the subframe (mine sheared over and over again) and the metal crossover piece.

Put it this way... if the rack is sturdy enough not to fail, the subframe will be the next part to go.



There are just not the bikes you want to take on trips two up and loaded with gear! I did a couple short rides on the 640A two-up out of necessity, and I can't imagine taking a serious trip that way.
Just exactly what are you loading on your machine when your shearing off the subframe bolts? You saw on LWR how the strongly built frames on the beemers gave out.... Are you riding a zillion miles an hour over choppy ground with a load? Adventure travel calls for a more conservative riding style to preserve both the bike and rider for the long run... Constantly dropping the bike on its side will also weaken and tweak things.... The factory rating for the bike capacity is 839 LBS, so if the bike weighs 400 LBS gassed up then that leaves almost 440 LBS for rider + gear.... Surely the factory must of strength tested this to arrive at that capacity figure.....

I haven't heard of too many 640s that break at the subframe mounting points, that is more of a KLR issue.... Most breaks I have heard of occur near the bend at the back of the seat near the charcoal can /toolbox bracket.... Loaded had a thread on a while back where he added gussets to this part of the subframe to strengthen it...

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Old 08-02-2009, 03:31 PM   #51
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http://picasaweb.google.ca/lh/photo/...eat=directlink

So for me here is the "hard to return home" topcase ...

http://picasaweb.google.ca/lh/photo/cuUxcvCUXQo_EkvtJ4bvNQ?authkey=Gv1sRgCKuDnvT35MjPb A&feat=directlink

and the broken subframe...

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Old 08-02-2009, 05:13 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck
Just exactly what are you loading on your machine when your shearing off the subframe bolts, a condo? You saw on LWR how the strongly built frames on the beemers gave out.... Are you riding a zillion miles an hour over choppy ground with a load? Adventure travel calls for a more conservative riding style to preserve both the bike and rider for the long run... Constantly dropping the bike on its side will also weaken and tweak things.... The factory rating for the bike capacity is 839 LBS, so if the bike weighs 400 LBS gassed up then that leaves almost 440 LBS for rider + gear.... Surely the factory must of strength tested this to arrive at that capacity figure.....

I haven't heard of too many 640s that break at the subframe mounting points, that is more of a KLR issue.... Most breaks I have heard of occur near the bend at the back of the seat near the charcoal can /toolbox bracket.... Loaded had a thread on a while back where he added gussets to this part of the subframe to strengthen it...
The bolts I sheared repeatedly are the ones that attach the rack to the subframe, not the subframe mount itself. They are the bolts that go through the midsection of the subframe, which are way too small and way too long and have horrific torsional forces applied. By the grab handles:



I only dropped the bike a couple times and never with any significant force. I did, however, hit topes at full speed and cover a lot of rough dirt roads at fairly high speeds. I simply rode the bike the way it was intended.

If you have a 640A, try loading it up and then pressing on the cases - you can get the subframe to flex visibly. My 990A is far, far more rigid.

I love the 640A and had a wonderful time with the bike, but it really shouldn't be loaded up the way you would load up a 990 or a GS. My experience is that unless you ride it like a Goldwing, hard panniers are a bad idea on that bike.
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Old 08-02-2009, 05:48 PM   #53
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There is not too much difference between the way your happy trail frames mount compared to the Moto-Sport racks I use.... The rear frame mount has a clamp bracket which doesn't hang the weight as far back and the front strut that mounts on the footpeg bracket has more of an upward angle... The M.S. racks came with very good hardware including 2 high grade bolts that replace the stock grab handle bolts...

You can see how if you push down on the back of the luggage rack how the extra strut on the luggage frames help to support the whole back end of the machine by applying the load to the bolt on the footpeg bracket rather than focusing it at the bend in the subframe.... If you plan on carrying a big load on just the seat and tailrack and not have frames then I would suggest to make up a couple struts to give the same effect..... I notice the rally bikes run with a similar subframe but have two additional struts to carry the load of the extra side fuel tanks and these guys ride fast on bad ground...
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Old 08-10-2009, 06:39 PM   #54
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Would you ?...

KTM 640 Adventure Topcase

Ok, so - I have a Brand New 48 liter 'CooCase' top box from Twisted Throttle left over that never made it onto my 2007 V-Strom (*no longer with me).

I use my bike daily for commuting, groceries, joyrides etc., but I am a tad put off by how often I am putting on and taking off my Ortliebs just to carry things to work & back, or the store, they don't lock, etc. etc. etc...

So I was just sitting around staring at this CooCase I wondered... 'How would it look & work?"....

I put the Box on my 2007 KTM 640 Adventure...

What do you all think ? ***(and those who USE top boxes... you like them ?)***
Utility, or looks lame. haha (but still functional damnit !)






Mounting plate when no case on the bike:


And it'll hold a Shoei Hornet PLUS another full face... (good for 2-up trips. )
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:50 PM   #55
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I use the 37 liter KTM topbox all the time in the winter on my 640... I like it because it keeps things inside dry....

I always stretch a bungee net over the whole thing to keep it from bouncing open or off the bike on rough roads...
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:49 PM   #56
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If it works for you; that's all that matters.
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:23 AM   #57
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Guys,
Put self locking nuts on the subframe bolts, they will stay tight.

On the road every 3-4 days you need to check the bag mounts, it's part of the routine, so have the Allens handy. It's a 640 KTM, you check all the fasteners...right? I carry a blue locktite solid stick in my every day tools and use it religiously.
bill
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:52 AM   #58
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Fwiw

I've only had a couple of things loosen up on me over the years, a turn signal stalk, a quarter-panel bolt, um... maybe an exhaust fastener - and that's it.

What I'm trying to say is - I don't think it's LAW that LC4 fastener's work themselves free. KTM has engineers, that spec fasteners and torque values to suit the application, vibes and all. So if the fastener is not fatigued, and the torque value is correct, then it should stay put.

Now I'm not saying you shouldn't check, but Creeper's method of marking nut/bolts (witness marks) will make it easy to make sure nothing is loosening up. And I reserve the right to change my mind if I ever get a sidestand or luggage racks...
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:08 AM   #59
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The cheapest and one of the easiest solutions I've seen was a mate who bought a couple of those nylon denier/cordura school backpacks, on special at $15 each. He merely undid the straps, and back-to-back reconnected them with each other and Presto! a $30 set of soft throwover panniers, with lots of little pockets too. For $30 bucks, who gives a rat's if they only last a season?

BTW, his have lasted 3 seasons now, including baby 'silla using them for a 3,000k ride.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:49 AM   #60
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dirtbagz racks

just wanted to include some pics from my recent install of the dirtbagz racks. i'd read a lot of threads where folks mentioned using them, but didn't find a lot of pics of the racks without luggage mounted. I'll be using these with the ortlieb dry bags and a waterproof duffel. i didn't do the slickest install and ended up cutting away more plastic than necessary, but whatever, i ain't entering no beauty contest.

The install was definitely more work than I'd expected. i ended up removing the passenger pegs completely, which i would have rather avoided. i had to do quite a bit to loosen up all of the rear fenders as well, trim a lot of plastic from the inner fender, etc, and it never really ended up falling into place as i'd expected. but they're on and they're solid. i think these will do exactly what i need'em to and for a lot less $$ than the other bolt-and-play options.

hope someone finds these useful:

[IMG]
From KTM 640 Adv - Dirt Bagz brackets
[/IMG]

[IMG]
From KTM 640 Adv - Dirt Bagz brackets
[/IMG]

[IMG]
From KTM 640 Adv - Dirt Bagz brackets
[/IMG]

[IMG]
From KTM 640 Adv - Dirt Bagz brackets
[/IMG]

[IMG]
From KTM 640 Adv - Dirt Bagz brackets
[/IMG]

[IMG]
From KTM 640 Adv - Dirt Bagz brackets
[/IMG]

[IMG]
From KTM 640 Adv - Dirt Bagz brackets
[/IMG]
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