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Old 11-25-2007, 05:51 AM   #1
CHANGELING OP
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M97 Attention to details

Hi all,
Just split my M97 gearbox open at the weekend to diagnose and fix my 2nd gear skippage, thought I'd share a few pictures with youall, and then a few questions for the collective wisdom of ADVrider.


Input splines look ok.

Clutch splines too. However there is some damage on the shifting gear dogs on the idler shaft.


And a pitted surface on the output shaft right where the oil seal goes...see the smooth shiny rings.


Look at the wear pattern on the 2nd gear shift fork..thats unusual...I wonder what's causing that thinks I.


So I look at the output shaft in a bit more detail and to my horror find that the lateral play in the 2nd gear spur gear is more than I would have liked to find. The rule in the picture is in front of the spur gear in the picture


close up of the "GAP"



Now it appears that the 'box has been apart before and the previous vandal has omitted the toothed disk between the circlip and the spur gear which is the gear on the left of the picture.

And (drum rooooll) Would that cause 2nd gear to skip on shifting or what?

Should I be looking for more trouble with this 'box?


Any thoughts ?

GB screwed with this post 11-25-2007 at 05:25 PM
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:08 AM   #2
jigdog
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As I understand it a "skipping" problem is related to wear in the slots of the shift drum. Leaving parts out may or may not affect things also. How many miles on this transmission?
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Old 11-25-2007, 10:49 AM   #3
CHANGELING OP
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Thanks for reading Jidog
Unknown mileage because I think it's a second hand unit which looks like it's been kicked around a concrete floor judging by the scratches on the casing sometime in it's life. I think dog wear is the most common cause but the dogs are worn worst on gears that don't give me any problems (yet!!!) The whole spur gear can be moved by about 3-4mm further away from the engagement dogs, if thats happening when I'm shifting then no wonder it skips!!!


Maybe Anton Largiader can advise on this unusual condition which doesn't figure on his site ?

I think I must track down a used output shaft at a breakers anyway because of the sealing surface damage, it never leaked in the past BUT you know it will if I don't fix it properly that and a new shift fork just in case plus new bearings and seals.

When I took the gearbox off the bike I could move the input shaft laterally and feel play so the shimming will have to be done seriously on all shafts too.
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Old 11-25-2007, 03:01 PM   #4
AntonLargiader
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Absolutely misassembled. Never seen that before, and I doubt it's widespread. It was just put together wrong.

Do you have the bearings? I just realized I didn't respond to that. I think I have them here; I can get the numbers.
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:02 AM   #5
CHANGELING OP
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Thanks Anton you're a star. I hope this rebuild will all turn out well in the end.

As for bearings I found 2x 6205 FAG bearings for the input shaft and one other (which I don't have here at work) for the output shaft. But any part numbers SKF FAG etc would be well appreciated.

I bought all the seals from BMW for the whole 'box

Do you hold with my decision for a secondhand shaft because of the seal seat damage?, it never leaked but I think it was only a matter of time.
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Old 11-26-2007, 05:05 AM   #6
AntonLargiader
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Wow! Didn't notice that detail. Yes, if you can find a new shaft, do it. Otherwise see how much you can smooth it out with an abrasive pad.

518 - 6205LU
519 - 6204LU
520 - 6304LU
521 - 6303LU
522 - SC03AS9LU

I gotta say, those NTN bearings are awesome. It is VERY rare that I take a worn one out of a tranny. I'm considering testing them in a few of my Airhead trannies.
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AntonLargiader screwed with this post 11-26-2007 at 06:32 AM
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:31 AM   #7
vcrash
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can you not put a speedy sleve on that shaft? ive always had good luck with them, would be much cheaper then finding new shaft. the seal number should be all you would need to order a speedy sleve.
vc
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:15 AM   #8
CHANGELING OP
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Nice one Anton. Will get to the bearing shop as soon as possible with those numbers.

vcrash, whats a speedy sleeve when it's at home ? Sounds interesting. Just Googled it and am gobsmacked, Sounds too good to be true..... Wonder if it's available here in Eastern Europe ? (Don't ask about Loctite availability)

Local bearing shop is an SKF dealer so I'll see what he says later this week.

Anyone ever had a negative experience with this product.? (tongue in cheek comment )

CHANGELING screwed with this post 11-26-2007 at 08:24 AM
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:44 AM   #9
stuckinmud
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Where can a guy find all the clearence/tolerences for the trany? My service manual doesn't have them in it.
Thanks
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:15 AM   #10
scooteraug02
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Can you put that shaft on a lathe and smooth out the surface with sand paper or a pad.

Did the seal go over the rust or on the gear side of the rust?
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:21 AM   #11
vcrash
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a speedy sleave is a small sleave that you slide over shaft to warn or pitted area, it comes as a kit with a installer(larger piece of pipe to push new sleave on) the new seal (supplied with speedy sleave) is then installed as before. they are very inexpensive and should be available through your bearing supply shop, if you supply me with the shaft size at seal and the outer seal diameter i can try to find the part number for you, stemco is the brand i usually use.
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Old 11-26-2007, 05:03 PM   #12
scooteraug02
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Fyi

Hey Changeling,

I ran across this by accident: $150 Shipping to Hungary??$$

http://www.beemerboneyard.com/23002325620.html

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Old 11-27-2007, 01:09 PM   #13
CHANGELING OP
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Ok sorry but I had no time to get back to this until now.

Scooteraug,
the seal ran directly on the rusty portion and caused the two polished rings visible in the picture and it's not just rust it's pitted too so no sanding is going to cure that!!! Also thanks for the link to the breakers but shipping to Hungary from the States incurs huge import duty + shipping costs, so I use suppliers in the UK if at all possible. They are in the EU and there is no extra duty to pay, luckily. Nice thought though.

vcrash,
It's interesting that you would need a new seal as I believe that the BMW output shaft seal is a special design wich is directional or something So would it not be possible to use a BMW seal over a speedi seal as it's only 0.28mm difference. What do you think? The good news is that my local bearing shop guy understood my bad Magyar and said they can get these sleeves to order so I just need to know the critical dimensions. I think it would be ID,OD,Depth of seal. is that right ? I'm not sure which brand they can get over here but thanks for your offer of help.

Anton,
local bearing shop had all but one bearing on the shelf. The 522 equivalent will have to come from BMW but you can't win them all. I went with FAG as that's what it had anyway and the price was right too.

stuckinmud,
Which manual do you have? I would not consider doing this without a copy of the BMW service manual which gives all the procedures and data for that process and shimming etc. If you need a copy send me a pm.

Thanks for all your help, will update as and when because the guy who is going to lend me his bearing puller has just told me it's at his parents 300kms away, so I'll have to wait. Still the weather is pretty rotten till February at least.

Cheers
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:58 PM   #14
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I emailed Beemerboneyard just in case they had some shipping/duty magic.
So a minimum of $315 USD + Hungarian duty. With the value of the dollar that's pocket change!

Hi Rick,
Shipping to Hungary with USPS 6-10 day Priority service (the cheapest reliable service) is $165. As for fees and taxes, I don't know what they charge in Hungary but most European countries charge some sort of VAT tax, usually around 15-20% of the value. If he is interested contact me or have him contact me and I can give him ordering instructions for a credit card directly online or paypal. Paypal is usually easier if he has an account. I can even send a Paypal invoice to him if we know the email address he uses with Paypal (assuming he has an account). Let me know, thanks,
Mike
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:52 AM   #15
CHANGELING OP
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It's still an unknown condition gearbox though.
From motorworks in the UK I can get a used output shaft, with gears I think, for 48GBP which is more than enough for me at the moment but thanks and good luck selling the 'box.
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