ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Hacks
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-18-2012, 06:03 PM   #1
Byron1 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Byron1's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Location: Lincolnshire, England
Oddometer: 106
I want to build the ultimate RTW vessel. Hack wannabe - Advise please!

Ok, so I have been lurking in this forum for a while now and have got myself a pan handle for a sidecar.


I have a few questions which I am hoping you guys may be able to help with. I appreciate this is a long message with a lot of vague-ish questions that could have more than one answer. Any advice, assistance or encouragement given is very gratefully received!

First a bit of background: my girlfriend and I are currently riding from Alaska to Tierra Del Fuego, in the process taking a big detour across the states and Canada. We've clocked up about 18,000 miles on this trip so far and right now we are in the Yucatan peninsula of Mexico. We are riding a '79 BMW R100RS, which has been great on the paved roads. I love the BM as it is reliable, easy to work on and has great character. Here is a pic of it loaded up and ready to roll:




Only problem is, we are travelling two up, it is fully loaded and is an absolute pig on anything that isn't a good sealed road. I haven't been trying to rally it or anything, but on the few dirt tracks we have had to take our poor bike has taken a beating. Both fork seals have now popped and it just is wrecking it riding off road.


Fortunately our route down to TDF will be mostly paved so we don't have too many more worries about that part.


Since leaving home, inevitably we have realised we don't want to just call it a day at TDF and are currently toying with the idea of going over to Australia, getting jobs to save up more money and then find a way of riding back overland to the UK from there.


That is where you guys come in: I don't want to GS-ify the bike, definitely don't want to get anything else, and am quite sold on the idea of attaching a sidecar - I have it in my head this could make it into a go-almost-anywhere vehicle.


I like the rugged look (despite how they may or may not actually perform) of the URALs and have got it into my head that if I had the right sidecar set up, our bike could make it back overland across Siberia and Mongolia etc to Europe and then England.


My questions are as follows:


1. Will the right set up of sidecar actually give me greater off road ability? (Or am I just kidding myself).


2. My drive splines will need replacing when I get to Oz anyway so am thinking about looking into a 2wd conversion. Is this (economically!) achievable and worthwhile?


3. Likewise I would be replacing the clutch for good measure. It already has a Heavy Duty spring in, but are there any other upgrades I should be considering?


4. Front end of the bike - what would work best? Would it need to be converted to a leading link set up, or can I just keep as is?


5. I saw a thread about hacks in Oz and Someone was talking about possibly importing a load of the DMC Sidecars, but can't find it now I am looking for it! I like the look of the M72 rig... Would that be ok for 2wd?


6. How much is this going to cost me? I see the base cost for a M72 is about $5k.. Usual story - want to keep costs down and have it all, but is there anyone in Oz that has a secondhand sidecar they would be willing to sell - preferably URAL off road style-e?


In reality it will be April before we get to Oz.. I'll need to work a few months to save up some more cash (have heard there is good money in the West at the moment for Construction PMs) so I would be looking to start the build in August 2013 all being well.


I appreciate it is a long while off, but thought I would put the feelers out and start planning this properly rather than just day dreaming .


Thanks for any advice you can give. If you are interested in our trip up until now, see link below for our blog.


Byron
Byron1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 07:04 PM   #2
Strong Bad
n00balicious
 
Strong Bad's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Santa Susana, CA
Oddometer: 4,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron1 View Post
Ok, so I have been lurking in this forum for a while now and have got myself a pan handle for a sidecar.


I have a few questions which I am hoping you guys may be able to help with. I appreciate this is a long message with a lot of vague-ish questions that could have more than one answer. Any advice, assistance or encouragement given is very gratefully received!

First a bit of background: my girlfriend and I are currently riding from Alaska to Tierra Del Fuego, in the process taking a big detour across the states and Canada. We've clocked up about 18,000 miles on this trip so far and right now we are in the Yucatan peninsula of Mexico. We are riding a '79 BMW R100RS, which has been great on the paved roads. I love the BM as it is reliable, easy to work on and has great character. Here is a pic of it loaded up and ready to roll:




Only problem is, we are travelling two up, it is fully loaded and is an absolute pig on anything that isn't a good sealed road. I haven't been trying to rally it or anything, but on the few dirt tracks we have had to take our poor bike has taken a beating. Both fork seals have now popped and it just is wrecking it riding off road.


Fortunately our route down to TDF will be mostly paved so we don't have too many more worries about that part.


Since leaving home, inevitably we have realised we don't want to just call it a day at TDF and are currently toying with the idea of going over to Australia, getting jobs to save up more money and then find a way of riding back overland to the UK from there.


That is where you guys come in: I don't want to GS-ify the bike, definitely don't want to get anything else, and am quite sold on the idea of attaching a sidecar - I have it in my head this could make it into a go-almost-anywhere vehicle.


I like the rugged look (despite how they may or may not actually perform) of the URALs and have got it into my head that if I had the right sidecar set up, our bike could make it back overland across Siberia and Mongolia etc to Europe and then England.


My questions are as follows:

Before you do anything read this thread:

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=739872


1. Will the right set up of sidecar actually give me greater off road ability? (Or am I just kidding myself).

Greater than what you have now....hmmmmm...more stable perhaps, but most likely a better rig for the 2 of you on dirt roads. Now I'm sure all of the Uralistias will chime in on how they compete in rock crawling and mud bog racing their 2WD rigs, but if you are in a 3rd world country are you sure you really want to be going down those bad of roads/trails?? Some people put wenches on their rigs (even the Uralistias) to get out of bad situations.
The thing is, you don't want to GS-tify you rig, but you want it to be better in the dirt??

2. My drive splines will need replacing when I get to Oz anyway so am thinking about looking into a 2wd conversion. Is this (economically!) achievable and worthwhile?

Define Economical, and worthwhile while building "the ultimate RTW vessel" a budget or at least approximate budget is required.

3. Likewise I would be replacing the clutch for good measure. It already has a Heavy Duty spring in, but are there any other upgrades I should be considering?

There is a ceramic clutch that many GSA guys are using. When mine goes, that is what I'll swap over to.


4. Front end of the bike - what would work best? Would it need to be converted to a leading link set up, or can I just keep as is?

There are trail reducers that you use to improve the handling with your front end, not real sure about your year and model I'm sure Jay or Clyde will chime in.


5. I saw a thread about hacks in Oz and Someone was talking about possibly importing a load of the DMC Sidecars, but can't find it now I am looking for it! I like the look of the M72 rig... Would that be ok for 2wd?

You are talking custom build, anything is possible with the right fabricator.


6. How much is this going to cost me? I see the base cost for a M72 is about $5k.. Usual story - want to keep costs down and have it all, but is there anyone in Oz that has a secondhand sidecar they would be willing to sell - preferably URAL off road style-e?

See answer above

In reality it will be April before we get to Oz.. I'll need to work a few months to save up some more cash (have heard there is good money in the West at the moment for Construction PMs) so I would be looking to start the build in August 2013 all being well.

Is it that easy to get work permits in OZ???

I appreciate it is a long while off, but thought I would put the feelers out and start planning this properly rather than just day dreaming .


Thanks for any advice you can give. If you are interested in our trip up until now, see link below for our blog.

You'll want to upgrade your suspension too.


Byron
Seriously look at what Matt and Kristen have done with both the Ural & a GSA (Bugs on my face ride report)
__________________
"I couldn't wait for success, so I went ahead without it."
Strong Bad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 07:18 AM   #3
GypsyWriter
Sarah
 
GypsyWriter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Hanford CA
Oddometer: 1,502
I'd definitely shoot Claude or Jay an email if I were in your shoes. You mentioned the DMC cars being a bit pricey, you can still get a frame from them for less, find your own used car and attach it yourself if you'd like to save money and DIY. I'm not sure what you mean about not wanting to "gs-ify" the bike yet want to go offroad - the sidecar would give you more stability to not fall over, but your bike would still take the same beating on the bumpy roads.

I'm dreaming of doing the same thing as you and am in the process of working with Jay at DMC to make a rig for my 1200GS, in the hopes of going around the world with it. If you want it done well there are a few things you'll need and/or want to make it comfortable (leading link can be among the most expensive but considerably help the driving). Definitely read as many forum posts you can about your options and have a blast on your TDF trip!! Bike looks fantastic as is, sorry you had issues with the fork seals etc, hope its smoother sailing here on out!
__________________
2012 R1200GS Rallye - Gypsy
2003 R1150GSA with DMC sidecar
Ask A Self-Publisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by FotoTEX View Post
Life is dangerous. Not doing what you love makes life even more dangerous...
GypsyWriter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 08:11 AM   #4
jaydmc
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Oddometer: 1,054
Lots of questions. You did not say where you are now, Are you any where near Seattle? In the shop right now we have an R100RS, R100GS, R1100GS, R1200GS, and Suzuki Vstrom all set up in a way that would want one. Next week we are starting on two more R1200GS rigs and a Triumph Tiger rig, So if there is any chance you can stop by the shop we can spend some time going over every thing and give you a ride in a rig.

1. Your off road ability right now more the likley sucks as you are way over loaded for off road. So a bike that can not fall over, sure it should work better for the kind of off road riding you are likley to be doing. I suspect by off road you are really thinking more of "off pavment" with perhaps a short run down a trail to a camp site. The sidecar would work great for this.

2. 2wd can be done but is not cheap, not only will you have to make changes to the bike you will also need to make changes to a sidecar. The benifits are far out paced by the draw backs. It is expenisve, it makes your bike more complex and heavy, It will seldom be needed for the type of travel you are doing. This bike is not a toy to you where you can go play off road and if you break it, trailer it home and fix. You are living on this bike, you need the bike to continue on. You are not likley to want to go hard off road as one bad mishap on the bike could end your entire trip. For the money spent on 2wd you could travel many more thousands of miles with out 2wd.

3. Clutch up grades are a good idea even with out the sidecar. You already have the bike loaded a lot heavier then BMW designed it for. You might want to while either doing the splines or clutch time go to a different final drive ratio.

4. I would go with a leading link as it is a much stronger front end and can have stronger springs to carry the loads you are imparting on the rig. While there are other things that can be done to lower the steering effort most keep the some what week front forks. We just had a traveler Ian from England in the shop a month or so back, he some times posts here. I hope he chimes in, He is 1/2 way around the world right now on an R100GS rig that he is running a modified Unit leading link that is working well for him.

5. The tread on sidecars to OZ about sidecar dealers in Australia. We are working on a left side mount M72DX sidecar at this time as we have a few orders for them. We can build the M72 type sidecars for 2wd. 2wd is going to cost a lot, give you braging rights, a more complex bike and stuck about 50 feet further along then you would be with out it. A hand operated winch would be better for you and a lot less money.

6. In OZ sidecars are going to be left side mounted. As you are still in North America why not set the rig up now which will make it a right side mount sidecar. As noted base price on the M72D is $4995, A leading link is going to run you $2500-3000 depending on the specifications you choose. You are going to want about another $500-$1000 or so in options such as fuel canisters, windsheild, tonneau cover and some racks. 2wd will double the price but if you want it we will build it. BTW, I do not run 2wd on my own rigs as I find that other then in real deap mud and snow I do not need it unless I am running an AMA Enduro event in which case there are breif times when it would be nice to have but as I am just playing I always find a way to deal with it, Usualy more speed.

If you do find a sidecar used you will also need proper mounting hardware for your bike as with out proper mounting hardware your saftey is compromised and you could also damage your bikes frame. The mounts we make for the air head BMW's are a well proven design with many of them traveling the same roads you are now on. If it were me I would get a sidecar on the bike as soon as you can, not sure if both you and your girlfreind are both riding the bike, with the sidecar there is no reason she can not ride the bike and have you in the sidecar which has some advantages if you need to put in a day with a lot of miles.

Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
2328 roosevelt ave
Enumclaw WA
98022
jaydmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 08:14 AM   #5
_cy_
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Oddometer: 6,312
that white type is all but unreadable.. have never figured out why folks use colors that are but illegible on monitors with turned down brightness.
_cy_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 08:31 AM   #6
MotoJ
Mobtown Hacker
 
MotoJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Baltimore
Oddometer: 1,181
I hacked a '78 R80/7 with a Dnepr sidecar, very similar to a Ural, all on the cheap, cuz I'm poor. I found a Piekert & Baus subframe here in the States, but later saw them all over EBay DE and the equivalent Craigslist type listings for much cheaper than I paid. Jay and Claude make great stuff, but if you want the car on the left, you may need to go to a source in Europe or Oz for a subframe.





You can get these with ball and jaw or clevis type mounts.
They are pretty much absolutely necessary for hacking an airhead, especially if you're taking rough roads.

Another thing to think about is your final drive. My R80 was a 3:20 rear, I think your bike might be taller- 2:90. The 3:20 does OK, but with a passenger and full load it labors on take-off. I have a 3:36 I'll use when the splines are shot. I'd say with your bike 3:36 would work out- it would be about 15% lower gearing than your stock, assuming it is 2:20.
You'll have to live with your speedo being off.

Rear shocks I have a used pair of Konis. Those have been great. You can find them or Hagons on EBay. Monroe made some too. All will be stiffer than the stock BMW units.

I kept my front end stock and put PVC pipe 2" spacers in on top of the springs to preload them. It does OK. I also installed a tube style lower fork brace and a Toaster Tan top plate. That combo stiffened up the forks very well, and along with a super wide pair of GS bars the steering is pretty easy and neutral. Point is, you can live without the leading link, although of course that is a better setup.

http://www.sjbmw.com/_documents/inst...s/877_part.pdf
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=741505

I have a steering damper off a GSX1100 mounted on a post welded to the frame downtube to a bolt going through the lower steering clamp. It takes the edge off low speed wobbles if I hit a pothole or something. Most guys use a VW, Mercedes, or BMW automobile damper mounted from the sidecar strut to an appropriate place on the forks. You'll need one with all the load and the rough roads you're planning.

I think if you take it slow an airhead with a good subframe, heavier suspension, etc. is up to the task. A heavy duty sidecar frame but with a lighter tub might make things easier on the bike.
__________________
The ladies used to check me out...now they just keep an eye on me.
MotoJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 09:36 AM   #7
claude
Sidecar Jockey
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Location: Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
Oddometer: 3,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoJ View Post
. A heavy duty sidecar frame but with a lighter tub might make things easier on the bike.
Good thought for sure. Lots of things to consider as with most projects.

We have a few outfits doing world tours as this is being written and a coupel fixing to do so.

Left or right mount is not an issue as far as how we do our chassis and subframe builds.

Matt and Kristins outfit mentioned earlier was a heavier combination than would be advisable on an airhead. However chassis wise the build would be very similar. Feel free to call.

Another thought may be to have someone in Austrailia do the project if you are heading that way anyhow....just thinking out loud here. .
__________________
Claude

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub at SCT
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

President: C Stanley Motorsports Inc.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...rsandTrailers/

http://freedomsidecars.com/

claude screwed with this post 10-20-2012 at 05:47 AM
claude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 03:54 PM   #8
bully1
Beastly Adventurer
 
bully1's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Perth west aussie
Oddometer: 4,540
If you can get an outfit built in the states then I would do that, there are only a couple of specialist sidecar builders in Australia and none of them do a body like Claude and Jay do.

As for 2wd then only you'll know the answer to that, do you really want to put your bike over some obscenley rough terrain and run the risk of it breaking. As far as I know there are only a couple of 2wd sidecars in Oz, homebuilt, and some of the 1wd sidecars get taken to some very out of the way places.

For some photo's of outback touring sidecars have a look at these threads


http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...amwell+station

http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...=sidecar+rally
__________________
'02 GSX 1400 outfit........lot's of grin factor
'11 Husky TE 630.......tyre shredder
'06 HUSKY TE610 x 2............ for the boys
'92 R100GSPD ( modified)...........slow and easy
bully1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 06:04 AM   #9
BeeMaa
Hack Pilot
 
BeeMaa's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: NoVA
Oddometer: 1,098
Contact Claude at Freedom Sidecars.
http://freedomsidecars.com/index.html
Talk with him on the phone and he will be able to help you with ANY questions you may have in addition to making excellent suggestions.

Cheers.
__________________
Eric B
'06 R12GSA/Hack & '10 R12GSA

An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. Robert A. Heinlein
BeeMaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 07:22 AM   #10
pops
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Stirling North South Australia
Oddometer: 1,582
Quote Jay G
2wd is going to cost a lot, give you braging rights, a more complex bike and stuck about 50 feet further along then you would be with out it.
You are right there Mate



Cheers Ian
pops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 10:06 AM   #11
DRONE
Dog Chauffeur
 
DRONE's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Tacoma, WA-ish
Oddometer: 3,866
You say you DON'T want a GS rig but you DO want two-wheel drive. That doesn't make sense. If you want to ride paved roads, your RS will work. If you want to venture onto tougher terrain, you want a GS with taller wheels, longer suspension and more clearance. Two-wheel drive is not something you want to consider if you're going into Siberia or someplace where tow trucks are not a phone call away.

You also have to consider the legal problems of a right-side car or a left-side car. Left is legal in Australia and England, and your bike is registered in England. But not as a sidecar rig. I don't think you can get your British registration changed to sidecar without an inspection. So that means you'll have to re-register it in Australia. But now your passports and your bike registration won't match. How you gonna deal with Customs officials in Mongolia or Turkmenistan with paperwork that don't look right? Good luck with that.

I admire your adventure spirit, and look forward to finding out what you end up doing. If you actually do this, it'll be real interesting to see your solutions.
__________________
WUMPA
Sidecardogs.com
DRONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 11:02 AM   #12
Steve In Ireland
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Steve In Ireland's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Ireland
Oddometer: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
You also have to consider the legal problems of a right-side car or a left-side car. Left is legal in Australia and England, and your bike is registered in England. But not as a sidecar rig. I don't think you can get your British registration changed to sidecar without an inspection. So that means you'll have to re-register it in Australia. But now your passports and your bike registration won't match. How you gonna deal with Customs officials in Mongolia or Turkmenistan with paperwork that don't look right? Good luck with that.
Actually it is easy enough to add a sidecar to a UK registered bike as it doesn't need to be retested and you don't have to change any of the documentation. However, the sidecar has to be fitted on the left to comply with contruction and use regulations in the UK.
Steve In Ireland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 11:21 AM   #13
DRONE
Dog Chauffeur
 
DRONE's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Tacoma, WA-ish
Oddometer: 3,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve In Ireland View Post
Actually it is easy enough to add a sidecar to a UK registered bike as it doesn't need to be retested and you don't have to change any of the documentation. However, the sidecar has to be fitted on the left to comply with contruction and use regulations in the UK.
Wow! Really? I thought the UK regs were much tougher.
__________________
WUMPA
Sidecardogs.com
DRONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 05:52 PM   #14
pops
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Stirling North South Australia
Oddometer: 1,582
I know you did not ask but ,Have you thought of getting a trailer to tow behind the bike ?.
The bloke with the trailer behind his GS has done over 100,000 km around OZ .







Cheers Ian
pops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 08:48 AM   #15
Byron1 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Byron1's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Location: Lincolnshire, England
Oddometer: 106
Wink Thank you



To everyone that has responded... thanks so much for all of the comments and suggestions. Just what I was after.

When I say I don't want to GS iffy my bike, essentially what I mean is I like the classic looks of the bike as it is. Don't want to change too far from that. Other than adding a sidecar. My personal idea of a rtw vessel is probably different from others, but that is what makes us all different and this forum such a great place.

Jay: thanks for the very detailed reply. We are actually in Mexico at the moment, we won't be heading back North unfortunately.. Definitely very interested in the M72dx so all being well, I'll be in contact when we get over to oz to see how things are going with the imports.

Left hand would be best for us as we would be doing it in oz then riding home to UK.. Also LHD.

As for 2wd.. Thanks, that clears that up for me and probably saves me a few grand in the process! I don't think I will bother. Like you say if I fit a winch that should do me for what I want. I guess it would just be some relatively light off roading and nothing too serious. It's just at the moment it is a real struggle... Especially in loose gravel and deep sand. Have done lots of offroad riding growing up so the skills picked up there have paid dividends now although there is only so much wrestling a massive heap of metal my body can take!

As for the trailer idea, yes I had though about that, but the main problem I want the sidecar to help fix for me is off road stability... The third wheel would be ideal for that whereas a trailer wouldn't stop me toppling over in the loose stuff.

The final drive I have at the moment is a 33/11. Not sure how that fits in with the ratios mentioned above ?? , I will look at that shortly. Co-incidentally for reference when I am in top gear sitting at about 3,000rpm the speedo shows me doing 70mph, but in reality I am doing 55 ish.

To clarify I am also a relative noob to airheads, this being my first one. I hadn't seen the ceramic clutches, so again thanks for that tip.

That outback rally in oz looks fantastic! Definitely keen in looking into that one when we come over... The picture of that K series with a snapped cam chain gives me the heebie jeebies though!

The bugs on my face ride report is awesome, some real inspiration there for us.

Lots for me to look into, lots more reading... This is just what I was after.

As for work permits, Yes it is fairly easy for what I would be doing.

When we do get over to oz I will be sure to start a build post to keep you all up to date with how we are progressing.
Byron1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2015