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Old 01-21-2008, 04:13 PM   #61
JimC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini Trail
I think I am getting a grasp of my problem. I am using the maps to draw the route and adding more viapoints to force it to follow my route. I use the rollcharts to add waypoints around confusing or busy areas and it has gotten unnecessarily cluttered. I haven't tried drawing the track, but I think you are saying it will stay put if I do.
I think it would help if CN would show the small roads without having to zoom in so close.
It is becoming painfully obvious that a number of people who own and use GPS's do not know the difference between a route and a track. If you embark on an off road adventure and you have created routes to guide you, you will probably be in for a very rude awakening as dirty_sanchez found out.

As simple as I can describe it (leaving out lots of confusing details)

Route: A bunch of points you identify on a map that you want to drive through. You load them into your GPS. The GPS cranks up it's routing engine and links them together using roads it selects from the data stored in the map sets loaded. When a route is loaded and you are navigating it, your GPS will visually announce turns and do all kinds of other weird stuff with your screen, getting you to follow its idea of where you are going. If you create a route in Mapsource and you give it to 10 of your friends odds are when they load it to their GPS's they will each end up with a different set of turns and directions than you have (Zumo's are an exception to this rule if the route was created in another Zumo). You can only have one route active and displayed on your GPS at one time. There are lots of other issues with routes that I won't get into now. The only time I use routes is when I have no idea where I am going. I then use the GPS to find a waypoint, city, hotel, etc and blindly follow the GPS because it knows how to get to where I want to go and I don't.

Track: A series of points your draw on a map connected by straight lines. They are like drawing on a piece of paper, or better yet like creating a trace of a map. When you create a track using the drawing tools in Mapsource, the track you create will look exactly the same on your GPS as it does in on your PC, and even better yet it will look exactly the same on the gps's all 10 of your friends have, regardless of the maps they have or the manufacturer of the GPS. The track on your GPS is like taking a magic marker and drawing it on the map. It never changes and it never talks to you. All you can do is turn it on, turn it off, change the color or delete it. You use a track when you have a specific set of roads and trails you want to follow and you know where you are going. You follow a track by starting down the roads you want to follow and then periodically looking at your GPS to see if the actual track you are creating is matching the track you drew. If it is not you backtrack to the point your actual track diverges from the drawn track and pick up the correct trails.

In a nutshell I use a route when I have no clue where I am going or how I want to get there, or when I am lost. I use a track when I know exactly where I want to go and how I want to get there. I never use a route if I am planning an off road trip. This is me, YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini Trail
If I use a track, is there a limit to the number of points I can put in? I haven't followed a track that was made in Mapsource before. I'll do one today and follow it home tonight.
Yes there are limits. When you are loading a track to your Garmin GPS you are limited to 500 track points per track. You can load 20 named (saved) tracks to your 60/76C/Etrex Hx GPS's. I created tracks for the Western TAT covering CO, UT, NV and OR. I ended up with 18 tracks containing 400-500 track points each, and it was all the detail I needed to complete the ride.

Jim in Sacramento

JimC screwed with this post 01-21-2008 at 08:47 PM Reason: clearify
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:42 PM   #62
trampaslake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
It is becoming painfully obvious that a number of people who own and use GPS's do not know the difference between a route and a track. If you embark on an off road adventure and you have created routes to guide you, you will probably be in for a very rude awakening as dirty_sanchez found out.

As simple as I can describe it (leaving out lots of confusing details)

Route: A bunch of points you identify on a map and load into your GPS. The GPS cranks up it's routing engine and links them using data stored in the maps you have loaded on the GPS. When a route is loaded your GPS will visually announce turns and do all kinds of other weird stuff with your screen, getting you to follow its idea of where you are going. If you create a route in Mapsource and you give it to 10 of your friends odds are when they load it to their GPS's they will each end up with a different set of turns and directions than you have (Zumo's are an exception to this rule if the route was created in another Zumo). You can only have one route active and displayed on your GPS at one time. There are lots of other issues with routes that I won't get into now. The only time I use routes is when I have no idea where I am going. I then use the GPS to find a waypoint, city, hotel, etc and blindly follow the GPS because it knows how to get to where I want to go and I don't.

Track: A series of points your draw on a map connected by straight lines. They are like drawing on a piece of paper, or better yet like creating a trace of a map. When you create a track using the drawing tools in Mapsource, the track you create will look exactly the same on your GPS as it does in on your PC, and even better yet it will look exactly the same on the gps's all 10 of your friends have, regardless of the maps they have or the manufacturer of the GPS. The track on your GPS is like taking a magic marker and drawing it on the map. It never changes and it never talks to you. All you can do is turn it on, turn it off, change the color or delete it. You use a track when you have a specific set of roads and trails you want to follow and you know where you are going. You follow a track by starting down the roads you want to follow and then periodically looking at your GPS to see if the actual track you are creating is matching the track you drew. If it is not you backtrack to the point your actual track diverges from the drawn track and pick up the correct trails.

In a nutshell I use a route when I have no clue where I am going or how I want to get there, or when I am lost. I use a track when I know exactly where I want to go and how I want to get there. I never use a route if I am planning an off road trip. This is me, YMMV.



Yes there are limits. When you are loading a track to your Garmin GPS you are limited to 500 track points per track. You can load 20 named (saved) tracks to your 60/76C/Etrex Hx GPS's. I created tracks for the Western TAT covering CO, UT, NV and OR. I ended up with 18 tracks containing 400-500 track points each, and it was all the detail I needed to complete the ride.

Jim in Sacramento
Thanks. This helps alot.

I've used routes quite alot. I've never seemed to have any problems with it taking me places I didn't want to go. Maybe I've just put in enough via points? Is it bad to put in a bunch of via points?

I noticed an earlier post say something about having too many via points. I've had a few routes with 50 to 60 via points and it worked fine. Could the number of via points allowed be model specific?

Thanks all.
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:14 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trampaslake
Thanks. This helps alot.

I've used routes quite alot. I've never seemed to have any problems with it taking me places I didn't want to go. Maybe I've just put in enough via points? Is it bad to put in a bunch of via points?

I noticed an earlier post say something about having too many via points. I've had a few routes with 50 to 60 via points and it worked fine. Could the number of via points allowed be model specific?

Thanks all.
The more Via's you use the better.

On lots of units you can build the perfect route on the GPS. It'll show exactly where you want to go.

But....

Once you dump the route from the PC into the GPS, the unit is hardheaded and forces the route you built into routing you to where IT wants you to go. Vias simply override the hardheadedness of the GPS into forcing the autorouting function of the unit into autorouting you to pass through various VIA's you have entered into the PC built route and appear on the route as it appears in the GPS.

Just don't have a combined grand total of waypoints and Via's greater than 25.

Dirty
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:26 PM   #64
Jeff@TheQuadShop
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In situations like the TAT, some of the roads won't even show up on auto routing maps like CN and CS. So your GPS will auto route around the actual TAT because the GPS thinks the road isn't even there.
I use tracks with Roads & Rec. All of the roads used for the TAT shows up in R&R.
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:22 PM   #65
trampaslake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_sanchez
The more Via's you use the better.

On lots of units you can build the perfect route on the GPS. It'll show exactly where you want to go.

But....

Once you dump the route from the PC into the GPS, the unit is hardheaded and forces the route you built into routing you to where IT wants you to go. Vias simply override the hardheadedness of the GPS into forcing the autorouting function of the unit into autorouting you to pass through various VIA's you have entered into the PC built route and appear on the route as it appears in the GPS.

Just don't have a combined grand total of waypoints and Via's greater than 25.

Dirty
I saw in your earlier post that you have a 60 series. I wonder if the 25 waypoint/via limit is dependent on the GPS model? I think I have several routes on my Quest that have more than 25 and I've never seemed to have a problem. You're making me wonder now.
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:30 PM   #66
stinkfinger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staxrider
The TAT is the trip of a lifetime. 276 bucks for the maps was pretty cheap if you ask me. I pored over the maps and plotted it on mapsource and looked upon it as preparation for the trip. Nevada had me planning side trips as some mine site or a canyon looked interesting. Little did I know how exhausted I would be to make these side trips. If you are looking to save a little money, Sam's maps aren't the place to cut. I camped the whole way, not to save money but because I like to camp, and that decision alone covered the cost of the maps.

And then you sold them in flea market for $110


Tony
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:48 PM   #67
Jeff@TheQuadShop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkfinger
And then you sold them in flea market for $110


Tony
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Old 01-21-2008, 07:36 PM   #68
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JimC......You have a future in GPS seminars....

Dude......that was the first time someone explained GPS speak in a way that I could understand. You boiled it down in a simple, concise way.

It now makes sense....

Thanks !
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:05 PM   #69
dirty_sanchez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trampaslake
I saw in your earlier post that you have a 60 series. I wonder if the 25 waypoint/via limit is dependent on the GPS model? I think I have several routes on my Quest that have more than 25 and I've never seemed to have a problem. You're making me wonder now.
I can only imagine each unit will have a different number of max waypoints/via points. The owners manual or Garmins site should answer your question.

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Old 01-21-2008, 08:58 PM   #70
JimC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
Dude......that was the first time someone explained GPS speak in a way that I could understand. You boiled it down in a simple, concise way.

It now makes sense....

Thanks !
There is actually some decent help information about tracks in the Mapsource Help file. In Version 6.12 or above click on

Help
MapSource Help
Select the "Index" tab
Key in "Tracks"
Double click "Understanding"

Read each of the sections under the "see following topics", and you will learn a lot about one of the powerful features in MapSource.

Thanks,
Jim in Sacramento
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:02 PM   #71
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One more thing to add to Jim C's explanation , and it was spot on, If you worry about following all the little turns on say a R&R road, you can use your track draw tool and draw the whole thing, every turn and twist in the trail. then save it. If you find you have too many points, some units use 250 some 500 and others I dont know. go to track properties and filter the track down to your units maximum points. The program will take out all the points you dont really need and leave the ones before and after the turns so you will never get off track. I filtered down to 250 points the tracks I combined to do the CD trip last summer. Worked great

Try the sticky at the top of this fourm .... I learned a ton from that thread....... man I love this site
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:47 PM   #72
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Found it. "The GPSMAP 60CSx lets you store 50 routes with up to 250 points each." Woot. Thanks again JimC I think I'll trace my route with the tracking tool and have them both. The turn by turn is pretty handy if just for the street names.
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:38 PM   #73
JimC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini Trail
Found it. "The GPSMAP 60CSx lets you store 50 routes with up to 250 points each." Woot. Thanks again JimC I think I'll trace my route with the tracking tool and have them both. The turn by turn is pretty handy if just for the street names.
Once you get off pavement, the odds of you finding a sign at a turn, let alone one that matches the name on your maps are slim and none (at least from CO to OR).

The other thing you need to be aware of I believe is the 250 route points only applies to direct routing, if you choose auto routing I think you are limited to 50 points when you try to use the route on your GPS.

Jim in Sacramento
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:00 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
There is actually some decent help information about tracks in the Mapsource Help file. In Version 6.12 or above click on

Help
MapSource Help
Select the "Index" tab
Key in "Tracks"
Double click "Understanding"

Read each of the sections under the "see following topics", and you will learn a lot about one of the powerful features in MapSource.

Thanks,
Jim in Sacramento
Jim...thanks for the fantastic info. I have one question. If you lay down a track in Mapsource and then move it to the GPS and then activate the track in the GPS I think that the track 'unwinds' itself as you hit each Via point. What if you miss a via point? Will the GPS consider it hit and move on or will the via point stay active? Does this make any sense?
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:54 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhaus
If you lay down a track in Mapsource and then move it to the GPS and then activate the track in the GPS I think that the track 'unwinds' itself as you hit each Via point. What if you miss a via point? Will the GPS consider it hit and move on or will the via point stay active? Does this make any sense?
You don't "activate" tracks they just appear on the map just like using a High Lighter on a paper map. If you (the big arrow) ever get off the track, you missed a turn, just go back and get back on the track.
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