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Old 04-07-2013, 07:21 PM   #5761
RideFreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySands View Post
If your chain skipped a tooth you have bigger problems than it being out of time. Is your chain that worn or is your tensioner not working or perhaps the slides too worn?

It's been a long time but can you install the chain tenioner back onto the motor and watch your marks? Taking the tension off the chain can allow it to sit funny.
+1, it's pretty hard for the motor to jump time; chain has to be really stretched so bad the tensioner's travel is used up, or the tensioner is broke, or the motor was assembled wrong.

You could be looking at cc stretch there, its a common wear item. If it's off a tooth it should have run very poorly when you got it restarted, crappy power, slow to rev and won't want to idle. It'd be very obvious in the motor's running.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:15 PM   #5762
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Quote:
should have run very poorly
Here's a little vid of it. You'll hear it when the camera man makes it to the top. If you listen carefully (i.e. blast the speakers) you'll hear the "knock" and then the horrible sounding idle. Like a metallic wheezing sound.

Oddly, when I was waiting for a ride to get me, I kicked her over and she seemingly idled fine but I didn't want to risk it

Oh...and its a fairly new cam chain..




wvridgerider,

The spring on the inside must not have been working correctly. After removing it, I noticed that after turning the bolt the tensioner did not recoil. So a bolt, a nut, and some JB weld I made it a manual tension one :)

Really don't know how to proceed here. thinking, adjust cam one tooth and see if it index marks are more parallel. fire it up and wish for the best! Otherwise, if adjusting the timing does not put the marks closer to parallel, I may just fire the beast up and go from there; chalking it up as a crazy fluke.

Anyhow, thanks for the responses and let me know if there is anything else i should look for.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:16 AM   #5763
wvridgerider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvg2 View Post
Here's a little vid of it. You'll hear it when the camera man makes it to the top. If you listen carefully (i.e. blast the speakers) you'll hear the "knock" and then the horrible sounding idle. Like a metallic wheezing sound.

Oddly, when I was waiting for a ride to get me, I kicked her over and she seemingly idled fine but I didn't want to risk it

Oh...and its a fairly new cam chain..




wvridgerider,

The spring on the inside must not have been working correctly. After removing it, I noticed that after turning the bolt the tensioner did not recoil. So a bolt, a nut, and some JB weld I made it a manual tension one :)

Really don't know how to proceed here. thinking, adjust cam one tooth and see if it index marks are more parallel. fire it up and wish for the best! Otherwise, if adjusting the timing does not put the marks closer to parallel, I may just fire the beast up and go from there; chalking it up as a crazy fluke.

Anyhow, thanks for the responses and let me know if there is anything else i should look for.
It ran good for three about three years and not sure what would have happened. Did you check the gear on the bottom end? I hope you figure it out. That was a new chain.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:10 PM   #5764
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Don't know I missed it the first time i was in there, but i'm pretty sure I found where the metallic grinding came from.



when i spin the clutch basket slowly by hand the gear on the back rubs against the red circle (idle gear?) for half a rotation. When it is not rubbing the idle gear has quite a bit of wiggle to it.

What's the verdict? Thinking the countershaft is bent/cracked?

Oh real quick, any tips on removing the clutch basket nut without the clutch basket holder tool dealeeo?
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:14 PM   #5765
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Originally Posted by mvg2 View Post
Oh real quick, any tips on removing the clutch basket nut without the clutch basket holder tool dealeeo?
I found that holding onto the primary drive nut (to the right of the clutch) allowed me to undo the clutch basket easily.

Haven't come up with a clever way to retighten both the nuts though...guess I'll need to find a friend with a air gun.

John
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:00 PM   #5766
Stretch67
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You can break loose (and re-torque) the big nut on the Primary Gear by using Honda Tool 07724-0010100, which is proudly proclaimed in the Honda XR4 manual as being not available in the USA.



However, there are cheap, plentiful tools available here in the USA that can be used to lock up the gears in order to put sufficient torque on the Primary Gear Nut...











Yep. Stack two pennies and jam them into the gear teeth so the Clutch Basket and Primary Gear can't turn.

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Old 04-08-2013, 08:48 PM   #5767
Olas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvg2 View Post
Don't know I missed it the first time i was in there, but i'm pretty sure I found where the metallic grinding came.

when i spin the clutch basket slowly by hand the gear on the back rubs against the red circle (idle gear?) for half a rotation. When it is not rubbing the idle gear has quite a bit of wiggle to it.

What's the verdict? Thinking the countershaft is bent/cracked?

Oh real quick, any tips on removing the clutch basket nut without the clutch basket holder tool dealeeo?

If anything, it is more likely the clutch basket bushing is worn out.

Check that the kickstart assembly is installed and seated properly once you get the basket off..
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:06 PM   #5768
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If ya got an airwrench and socket, shove a rag in the primary, the penny or small piece of alum works good also but I'd use a holder or rag if you're hitting it with air, leave the plates in since the center hub will spin on it's own, give some pressure to the outer clutch plate and that will usally hold it well enough to break the bolt loose.

I've seen the shafts get galled on the ks idler gears causing slop, sometimes you get lucky and it's just the gear. Replacing the shaft is allot more involved since it requires splitting the cases. You might be able to shim it up so it ckears ok.

I didn't think it jumped time (that's pretty rare) but looking at that other pic you cam chain is stretched pretty good. It'll make the motor sort of lazy running due to inprecise cam timing, probably should replace it while you're in there.
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RideFreak screwed with this post 04-08-2013 at 10:15 PM
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:36 AM   #5769
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I was able to break mine loose by putting it in gear, and putting a ratchet strap on the brake pedal to hold it. I may have also wedged the rear tire with a block of wood. Then I put the ratchet on the nut and hit it with a 5lb dead blow hammer to shock it loose.

Pennies sound much easier though
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:51 AM   #5770
mvg2
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thanks for the tips and suggestions guys. Totally appreciate it.

I guess i'll have to dig deep into the couch cushions and scrounge up the appropriate tools to get the nut off :)

the idle gear (when the clutch basket gear isn't rubbing it) has significant slop in it. Countershaft, bearing, both? guess i'll find out once I get the basket off.

i'm surprised that the cam chain has stretched that much already (relatively new). However, when put in the manual tensioner it looked like the tensioner plunger thing was ~1cm from fully extended. Is that a sign that the chain is at the end of its serviceable life?

In any case thanks again for the input and help!
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:10 PM   #5771
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That was bust. My blood is boiling, im bumbed out and frustrated with trying to get to something so simple...

Got a 27mm socket and some pennies to get the clutch basket off only to find its not going to happen. Even with the friction and clutch plates installed, only the inner basket spins. Because of this the gear does not rotate and the penny trick is useless. all i could try and do is prevent the real wheel from spinning but with a 3.5ft breaker bar it was impossible.

Pissed that something so simple is such a pain (and the fact that the weather broke up here doesnt help).

Any other ideas. I already tried extreme use of explecitives, kicking tires, and throwing stuff. didn't work.
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:32 PM   #5772
RideFreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvg2 View Post
That was bust. My blood is boiling, im bumbed out and frustrated with trying to get to something so simple...

Got a 27mm socket and some pennies to get the clutch basket off only to find its not going to happen. Even with the friction and clutch plates installed, only the inner basket spins. Because of this the gear does not rotate and the penny trick is useless. all i could try and do is prevent the real wheel from spinning but with a 3.5ft breaker bar it was impossible.

Pissed that something so simple is such a pain (and the fact that the weather broke up here doesnt help).

Any other ideas. I already tried extreme use of explecitives, kicking tires, and throwing stuff. didn't work.
You can always sacrifice a metel clutch plate, have a 6" x 1/4" bar welded to the outside edge, Basically you'd be making the removal tool. Make sure it's welded in a spot that lets it fit between the fingers of the basket though.
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:43 PM   #5773
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Put the bike in gear and either you or someone else needs to hold the rear brake down while you crank the nut loose.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:35 PM   #5774
LittleRedToyota
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mike...

if you need a second hand (or foot) to hold the rear brake on or whatever, just let me know.

you need to get that thing running and get back out on the trails with us.

signed...

"the cameraman"

(seriously, i don't live that far from you. i can hop on the DRZ and come out and lend a hand some evening if it'll help. i can probably even drag jeff along...he's pretty much a moto mechanic whiz.)
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:48 PM   #5775
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Mike,

I've got a tusk cluch holder tool your welcome to borrow. It's a glorified pair of vice grips that clamps into the grooves on the inner hub.



I don't think you live too far from me, just drop me a pm if you need it.
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