ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-02-2007, 05:44 PM   #1
haggeo OP
Studly Adventurer
 
haggeo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: oakland, ca
Oddometer: 877
baja designs electric start

i just bought a XR650R with a BD e-start. the previous owner had a pigtail installed to charge the battery because it is not being charged while riding for some reason. the bike starts fine all day but if it is not plugged in during the night it tries to start in the morning then nothing but a click. he had his local honda shop, who installed the e-start look it over and they could not find the problem, hence the charging pigtail. anybody have any pointers on where i could start looking? (he said the stator was rewound and thinks it's a 250w but did not seem 100% sure on the wattage.)

it kicks starts right up on the first kick so i don't really need the e-start but since the e-start is on the bike i may as well use it, right?
__________________
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? John Maynard Keynes



Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." John Kenneth Galbraith



The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

haggeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 06:12 PM   #2
cyclewizard
Beastly Adventurer
 
cyclewizard's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Norway/Michigan.
Oddometer: 4,811
You will have to get your stator rewound an make sure it's converted to DC current. I don't think he had it done.
Do you have three wires coming from the stator?

Start the bike an check the wires an see how many watts they are putting out.
start the bike an also check it at the battery to see what the volts are there.
__________________
C-dub......


Powered by CW-Pistons/cams
Wizard manufacturing....
cyclewizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 06:19 PM   #3
ncTRAILBOSS
A52 TOUR GUIDE
 
ncTRAILBOSS's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Eatin' CHEETOS,Livin' Large!
Oddometer: 2,536
Just guessing here,but the XR650R does'nt have a battery from the factory,[correct?].If that is true,there would have to be some sort of regulator installed to charge the battery without damaging it.It may be that the PO installed the leads to get around this.Some {all?} stators put out AC current,not DC.Most factory wired bikes have a regulator-rectifier.
__________________
09 Tan Rocker-Recliner
75 Yamaha MX400b
05 Yamaha YZ 250
ncTRAILBOSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 06:27 PM   #4
cyclewizard
Beastly Adventurer
 
cyclewizard's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Norway/Michigan.
Oddometer: 4,811
take the cover off an see if it was rewound.
Check for current when the bike is running at the battery, then unhook the pos cable with the bike running an check for current. if current is low the stator is not putting out enough an needs to be wound.
__________________
C-dub......


Powered by CW-Pistons/cams
Wizard manufacturing....

cyclewizard screwed with this post 12-02-2007 at 06:48 PM
cyclewizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 06:39 PM   #5
haggeo OP
Studly Adventurer
 
haggeo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: oakland, ca
Oddometer: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclewizard
You will have to get your stator rewound an make sure it's converted to DC current. I don't think he had it done.
Do you have three wires coming from the stator?

Start the bike an check the wires an see how many watts they are putting out.
start the bike an also check it at the battery to see what the volts are there.
the bundle of wires coming from the stator has at least three wires, it is in a sheath so i can't see each wire but it feels like more than 2. with the bike running it reads 13vdc at the battery. i had it on the charger for an hour and was able to e-start it. i found the pdf manual for the instal on BD's website so i'll look it over tomorrow, they do have a trouble shooting section for the does not charge problem.
__________________
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? John Maynard Keynes



Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." John Kenneth Galbraith



The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

haggeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 06:39 PM   #6
BDKW1
KL"X" not "R"
 
BDKW1's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: SoCal
Oddometer: 896
Even with the rewound stator you will need a new regulator/rectifyer. The stock one puts out 12VAC which is great for running lights and such but not so good for the battery....... BD sells regulators get the #'s off yours and call them.
BDKW1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 06:41 PM   #7
cyclewizard
Beastly Adventurer
 
cyclewizard's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Norway/Michigan.
Oddometer: 4,811
Here's some key-points I encountered installing Baja-Designs electric start kit for those of you considering one yourselves.
First of all I've gotta say this kit's a beauty if some extra steps are taken before proceeding with the bolt up.
1.) A good sharp file and some patience were needed to match the not quite flat e-motor mating surface to the perfectly flat CNC machined side case surface.
2.) The e-motor Allen head mounting bolts need their head diameters turned down on a lathe (I used a bench grinder) to clear the side of the start-motor.
3.) The dull-grey top and bottom castings on the e-motor polish up beautifully using the old file, emery-cloth, and steel-wool routine.
4.) The e-motor "body",in my opinion, looks 1000% better on the side of a hot-pig if painted with low gloss black engine enamel.
5.) A little grease was used to prevent galling when pressing the slightly less than perfectly circular starter ring-gear onto the flywheel. De-greasing followed.
6.) The three cable clamp screws used inside the CNC case need flat and lock-washers (not included) to prevent bottoming before snug up.
7.) The large left foot-peg bolt had to be removed temporarily to get the new shift-lever onto the correct spline.
8.) My XR's only 15T case-saver had to be removed (the battery tray uses some of the same mount points)
9.) Care is needed to position the stock stator cable-stay out of the way below the clutch actuator levers path when torquing in the battery tray. Route the cable through this stay straight across to the right, under the front of the tray, then pull it rearward under the solenoid coming up at the carb. vent tube bundle. Also watch the crankcase breather hose, it contacts a sharp corner of the tray (file the corners smooth before tray install).
10.) If like me you have one of the "3-wire" voltage regulator / rectifiers sold for a short while some time ago by Baja-Designs you need to replace it with the "4-wire" one included with the e-start kit. The "3-wire" model (one red & two yellow wires sticking out of the epoxy with a separate black ground wire loose in its' harness) regulated voltage by limiting its' input current rather than by shunting output current to ground; good in principal but they drained batteries quickly when sitting creating insufficient turn-on voltage for its' own reg. / rectifier circuit at engine restart, further pushing your battery into oblivion ;-) I never experienced this directly as I always pulled my battery after every ride.
__________________
C-dub......


Powered by CW-Pistons/cams
Wizard manufacturing....

cyclewizard screwed with this post 12-02-2007 at 06:49 PM
cyclewizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 06:51 PM   #8
haggeo OP
Studly Adventurer
 
haggeo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: oakland, ca
Oddometer: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMaggot
Just guessing here,but the XR650R does'nt have a battery from the factory,[correct?].If that is true,there would have to be some sort of regulator installed to charge the battery without damaging it.It may be that the PO installed the leads to get around this.Some {all?} stators put out AC current,not DC.Most factory wired bikes have a regulator-rectifier.
the PO did not install this it was installed by some cycle shop. i found a letter dated 1/29/06 in the maintenance folder the PO gave me, it read in part:

"...at this time you requested a baja designs electric start kit and oil sight tube . the electric start required having the stator rewound..."

it goes on to talk about having the battery tender pigtail installed


"...we noticed the battery was difficult to access for servicing purposes, so we went ahead and installed a battery tender pigtail..."


so i was wrong about the pigtail being installed because of e-start problems , must have started later. in any event i'll look it over tomorrow...
__________________
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? John Maynard Keynes



Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." John Kenneth Galbraith



The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

haggeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 06:58 PM   #9
haggeo OP
Studly Adventurer
 
haggeo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: oakland, ca
Oddometer: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclewizard
10.) If like me you have one of the "3-wire" voltage regulator / rectifiers sold for a short while some time ago by Baja-Designs you need to replace it with the "4-wire" one included with the e-start kit. The "3-wire" model (one red & two yellow wires sticking out of the epoxy with a separate black ground wire loose in its' harness) regulated voltage by limiting its' input current rather than by shunting output current to ground; good in principal but they drained batteries quickly when sitting creating insufficient turn-on voltage for its' own reg. / rectifier circuit at engine restart, further pushing your battery into oblivion ;-) I never experienced this directly as I always pulled my battery after every ride.
a-ha! this could be the deal with my bike. i'll check this out and the regulator/rectifier. thanks for the lead.
__________________
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? John Maynard Keynes



Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." John Kenneth Galbraith



The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

haggeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 07:04 PM   #10
cyclewizard
Beastly Adventurer
 
cyclewizard's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Norway/Michigan.
Oddometer: 4,811
Let us know........
__________________
C-dub......


Powered by CW-Pistons/cams
Wizard manufacturing....
cyclewizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2007, 07:18 PM   #11
haggeo OP
Studly Adventurer
 
haggeo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: oakland, ca
Oddometer: 877




ok, i'm only now getting around to poking around looking for any reason why the battery on my bike is not charging properly. this (regulator?) has a blue wire coming out of the top that has been snipped off for some reason. could be that it does not matter but it mattered at some point. this is the drawback to buying a bike with extra bells and whistles, you don't always know how they were installed or why. anyway, any help would be appreciated.
__________________
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? John Maynard Keynes



Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." John Kenneth Galbraith



The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

haggeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2007, 08:30 PM   #12
snaggleXR650
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Oddometer: 244
Just to be clear. Your unit is a regulator rectifier combination unit. There are such things as plain regulators, and plain rectifiers, yours is a regulator and a rectifier in one package. The regulator clamps the AC voltage from the stator down to ~13-14V. Then this AC voltage gets rectified, or smoothed to to be DC voltage. So AC voltage comes into the two yellow wires, and ~13-14VDC comes out of the red/black or blue wires.


Does the black wire from your reg/rec unit go to a chassis ground bolt or does it feed up into a dual sport kit handlebar switch etc..?

Does your battery (-) pole go to a chassis ground bolt?

Start your bike and check DC voltage between the red and black wires coming out of your reg/rec. If you get something real low, like 1VDC or something screwy, change your meter to AC voltage and check again. If you get ~13VAC then the black wire IS NOT RECTIFIED, only regulated. It won't charge your battery.

Keep the bike running and check DC voltage from red to blue. You should get ~13VDC. If this is the case, the blue is what should go to chassis ground or the (-) pole of your battery. Your battery will not charge on AC voltage (assuming the black wire is not rectified).

IF both blue and black to red show ~13VDC then they are functionally the same. However, either the black or blue wire has to be connected to the (-) battery pole either directly or through a GOOD chassis ground for the battery to charge.

Check DC voltage from the battery (+) to the chassis ground where your black wire is 'presumably' connected. Compare this value to DC voltage measured directly from the battery (+) pole to the battery (-) pole. If the first measurement is low, like < 12VDC, then this is your problem. You NEED to get every bit of voltage to the battery, IE greater than 12VDC, for it to charge... In other words you are getting voltage drop (poor connection) by connecting your battery (-) and reg/rec black/blue wire through a chassis ground. If this is the case, run a new wire directly from the black/blue wire from your regulator straight to the (-) pole on the battery...

Hope some of this helps...
snaggleXR650 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2007, 08:36 PM   #13
snaggleXR650
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Oddometer: 244
One more thing, to see if you have fixed it, check DC voltage directly on the + and - on the battery with the bike running and lights/turn signals/horn on etc... You will see the voltage on the battery slowly drop down, lower and lower if the battery isn't charging.

IF the battery is charging, you will see 12.5VDC or higher. Turn the throttle and let the bike stay revving higher than idle, the DC voltage should increase if the battery is properly charging from the reg/rec...

Common sense, but I thought I would mention it. Electrical stuff is hard to troubleshoot sometimes... Good luck.
snaggleXR650 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2007, 08:38 PM   #14
haggeo OP
Studly Adventurer
 
haggeo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: oakland, ca
Oddometer: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaggleXR650
Just to be clear. Your unit is a regulator rectifier combination unit. There are such things as plain regulators, and plain rectifiers, yours is a regulator and a rectifier in one package. The regulator clamps the AC voltage from the stator down to ~13-14V. Then this AC voltage gets rectified, or smoothed to to be DC voltage. So AC voltage comes into the two yellow wires, and ~13-14VDC comes out of the red/black or blue wires.


Does the black wire from your reg/rec unit go to a chassis ground bolt or does it feed up into a dual sport kit handlebar switch etc..?

Does your battery (-) pole go to a chassis ground bolt?

Start your bike and check DC voltage between the red and black wires coming out of your reg/rec. If you get something real low, like 1VDC or something screwy, change your meter to AC voltage and check again. If you get ~13VAC then the black wire IS NOT RECTIFIED, only regulated. It won't charge your battery.

Keep the bike running and check DC voltage from red to blue. You should get ~13VDC. If this is the case, the blue is what should go to chassis ground or the (-) pole of your battery. Your battery will not charge on AC voltage (assuming the black wire is not rectified).

IF both blue and black to red show ~13VDC then they are functionally the same. However, either the black or blue wire has to be connected to the (-) battery pole either directly or through a GOOD chassis ground for the battery to charge.

Check DC voltage from the battery (+) to the chassis ground where your black wire is 'presumably' connected. Compare this value to DC voltage measured directly from the battery (+) pole to the battery (-) pole. If the first measurement is low, like < 12VDC, then this is your problem. You NEED to get every bit of voltage to the battery, IE greater than 12VDC, for it to charge... In other words you are getting voltage drop (poor connection) by connecting your battery (-) and reg/rec black/blue wire through a chassis ground. If this is the case, run a new wire directly from the black/blue wire from your regulator straight to the (-) pole on the battery...

Hope some of this helps...
wow, thanks bro. i'm going to print this out, check out the bike tomorrow after work and post what i find. thanks again.
__________________
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? John Maynard Keynes



Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." John Kenneth Galbraith



The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

haggeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 10:17 AM   #15
haggeo OP
Studly Adventurer
 
haggeo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: oakland, ca
Oddometer: 877
i think the ground to the frame is to blame but i'm also thinking of getting rid of the whole thing. turns out i kick the bike over 80% of the time and it starts right up even when it's been sitting for a few days in my cold garage. if running the ground from the reg/rec to the battery does not work i'm getting rid of the whole thing. i put a brighter headlight in the other day and went for a ride, killed the battery stone dead so i'm lugging this 10lb weight around for nothing....
__________________
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? John Maynard Keynes



Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." John Kenneth Galbraith



The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

haggeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014