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Old 08-29-2008, 02:33 AM   #91
Nillbymouth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmodem
No oil pressure cut off switch is required if you connect the new pump (Facet or whatever) to the existing fuel pump wiring (black-blue and brown). The ECU controls the fuel pump through the fuel pump relay. The ECU is also what allows the fuel pump to run for a few seconds when the ignition switch is first turned on, butt the engine isn't running yet. Once the engine is running, the ECU provides power to the fuel pump relay continuously. When the engine quits running, the ECU shuts off power to the fuel pump relay, thus keeping the pump from pumping fuel and creating a hazard in the event of a crash.

The OEM Mitsubishi pumps use a contact point interrupt mechanism to regulate its duty cycles. The Facet 40xxx series fuel pumps run continuously as long as +12vdc is applied to their inputs. My 40171 draws 740 ma while running.

Facet's oil pressure switch warning is generic for all positive displacement electric fuel pumps 'cuz many are installed in "non ECU controlled" systems. Also, always install a fuel filter upstream with these type electric fuel pumps. They have precise clearances that will eventually be damaged by crud in the fuel system.
Just sayin'
Okay, I understand that the pump runs for a few seconds when the ignition is turned on and then continuously once the bike starts.

However, the OEM pump had a pressure switch so even if it had power it would not run unless required. When turning on the ignition I would only hear the OEM pump run approx 1 in 10 times. The 40171 runs EVERY time. In fact if I turn the ignition on/off/on/off/on... the 40171 runs every time. I then squeezed the fuel line to the carbs to block it and tried several more times and the 40171 still runs. Is this normal? I'm worried that it might be pumping too much fuel.

BTW, when I mean the 40171 runs, I mean I can hear it clicking, I've not checked to see if fuel is actually being pumped.
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:48 AM   #92
Deuce
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Thumb Works great

I installed one on Ingrid's '05 950 a couple months ago. She has now done over 15,000kms using this pump since about April of this year. No problems what so ever.

She just got back from an 18 day/ 8000km ride in the States and the bike ran like a top whether idling through traffic in 100+F heat or cruising at 90 mph on the interstate in Montana.

Just install the bloody thing, quit worrying, and get out there and ride
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:27 AM   #93
Monty_Burns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nillbymouth
Okay, I understand that the pump runs for a few seconds when the ignition is turned on and then continuously once the bike starts.

However, the OEM pump had a pressure switch so even if it had power it would not run unless required. When turning on the ignition I would only hear the OEM pump run approx 1 in 10 times. The 40171 runs EVERY time. In fact if I turn the ignition on/off/on/off/on... the 40171 runs every time. I then squeezed the fuel line to the carbs to block it and tried several more times and the 40171 still runs. Is this normal? I'm worried that it might be pumping too much fuel.

BTW, when I mean the 40171 runs, I mean I can hear it clicking, I've not checked to see if fuel is actually being pumped.
That's how it is suppose to work. If you checked the pressure in the fuel line between the pump and the carbs, you'd find it to be between 2 and 3 PSI (whatever the 40171 is rated at). There wouldn't be any flow, however, because the float valves in the carb hold the fuel back.

I believe that this is achieved by keeping a very specific, tight tolerance between the "piston" in the Facet pump and the sleeve it slides in. I put piston in quotes because it is actually more of a sliding pellet inside of a solenoid. So yes, the pump is pumping whenever it has power, but it has a built-in relief valve type system which kicks in when the specified pressure is achieved.

Clear as mud?

I have about 6000 miles on my Facet 40171 and it is plugging along just fine. No flooding issues and no fuel sarvation issues.
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:46 AM   #94
Nillbymouth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty_Burns
That's how it is suppose to work. If you checked the pressure in the fuel line between the pump and the carbs, you'd find it to be between 2 and 3 PSI (whatever the 40171 is rated at). There wouldn't be any flow, however, because the float valves in the carb hold the fuel back.

I believe that this is achieved by keeping a very specific, tight tolerance between the "piston" in the Facet pump and the sleeve it slides in. I put piston in quotes because it is actually more of a sliding pellet inside of a solenoid. So yes, the pump is pumping whenever it has power, but it has a built-in relief valve type system which kicks in when the specified pressure is achieved.

Clear as mud?

I have about 6000 miles on my Facet 40171 and it is plugging along just fine. No flooding issues and no fuel sarvation issues.
Brilliant, thanks.

I can now ride without the worry that I'd done something wrong, was pumping excess fuel and about to disappear into a ball of flames!
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:02 AM   #95
DockingPilot OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty_Burns
I have about 6000 miles on my Facet 40171 and it is plugging along just fine. No flooding issues and no fuel sarvation issues.
Ditto at 8k.
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:20 PM   #96
wheatwhacker
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Just installed mine during the week. An easy mod, just over an hour, not including time spent in the auto parts store to get the parts to make a nice 180 deg bend.
It's nice to hear that clickty click when you switch on the key. Of course last night I turned the bike on, no noise, checked my wiring, fuses and then discovered the BLOODY ENGING KILL SWITCH WAS OFF. Stupid me.

Then I installed a 16 tooth sprocket. Another highly recommended mod.

25,000 miles. No water pump issues, fuel pump was a precaution and starter replace under warrenty. Now, just to make it use less gas.
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:47 PM   #97
Monty_Burns
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Fuel Filter for the Facet

I need to add this. I followed CP's directions for installing the Facet pump. I don't have the hook-up on all the high quality bits CP gets for his projects, so I'm left with what I can get at the hardware or NAPA.

I don't know the specs (does it filter down to 74 micron?), but this filter worked great in my install as a substitute for CP's clear filter.

FRAM G3515:



My local Ace Hardware sells them for $3.99 and they come with everything you see in the image.

BTW, if you are so inclined to retain a stock pump and want some after pump fuel filtering, this filter looks like it could be placed under the left tank at the pressurize fuel line junction between the pump and the carbs. Just cut off the male-to-male connector and fit the Fram filter in its place. This is a theory, I haven't tried it.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:39 AM   #98
wheatwhacker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty_Burns
I need to add this. I followed CP's directions for installing the Facet pump. I don't have the hook-up on all the high quality bits CP gets for his projects, so I'm left with what I can get at the hardware or NAPA.

I don't know the specs (does it filter down to 74 micron?), but this filter worked great in my install as a substitute for CP's clear filter.

FRAM G3515:



My local Ace Hardware sells them for $3.99 and they come with everything you see in the image.

BTW, if you are so inclined to retain a stock pump and want some after pump fuel filtering, this filter looks like it could be placed under the left tank at the pressurize fuel line junction between the pump and the carbs. Just cut off the male-to-male connector and fit the Fram filter in its place. This is a theory, I haven't tried it.
Best to filter the fuel "before" it hits the pump.
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Old 08-31-2008, 08:52 PM   #99
allengt
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40171 Install on 950 SE

I lost my stock pump at about 6,500 miles. It was in the middle of nowhere I was able to bypass the pump and use gravity flow to get back home. Here is the write-up on that little adventure. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=369576&page=5

It is a little hard to see but the contacts were in very bad shape.


Here is my install of the Facet 40171 on my 950 SE. First here is the new pump.


After taking off the stock pump, I mounted the stock bracket upside down. This gives the clearance needed for the fittings.


Then I wrapped the long end of the inlet side of the pump in closed cell foam.



Then insert into the stock rubber mounting bracket and attach to the upside down bracket. Then attach the fittings and a fuel filter and it fits like a charm. I don't have a lot of miles on it yet but it seems to be working like a charm.



Well I hope that helps with those of you 950 SE owners who haven't replaced your stock fuel pump yet.
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:50 AM   #100
ridewestKTM
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That has to be the most elegant way of doing it I've see.

Regarding some other comments on these pumps. The stock one is powered only to suck in fuel and when it does it cocks a spring that puts the pressure on the fuel. When cocked the points open. So it really doesnt "sense" pressure. This way the pressure is nearly constant (the spring only goes about .1" and it's fairly stiff). I haven't taken apart any of the facets but I think the pressure is limited to the magnetic force caused by the current so while always trying to drive it doesn't/can't more than rated. A pressure relief design is possible but not a good idea because pushing the fuel thru a relief heats it up. Likely not a big deal but still not the way to do it.
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Old 09-01-2008, 12:58 PM   #101
jsrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatwhacker
Now, just to make it use less gas.
16t sprocket takes you in the wrong direction with regard to fuel efficiency. H2W jet kit will take you back in the right direction. The combination is unbeatable.
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Old 09-01-2008, 01:36 PM   #102
GoNOW
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Since I am now running a vacuum pump, I no longer need my 40171. If any of you guys need one, I have two new in box. PM me.

PS. What I should say, I have two pumps sitting in my tool box. If any ADV rider can't get them thru normal channels, or needs one ASAP, PM me and I will ship one out for what I paid for it.

GoNOW screwed with this post 09-14-2008 at 11:55 AM
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:21 PM   #103
fire_strom
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You got PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoNOW
Since I am now running a vacuum pump, I no longer need my 40171. If any of you guys need one, I have two new in box. PM me.
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:26 AM   #104
slaw
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still havent done it!!!

i know i should have fitted the pump before my holiday but is still packed under the seat with filter and other parts, my bike has now done 27,000miles and i should get on with it, but hey, i have breakdown!!!
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:32 PM   #105
CamelBill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoNOW
Since I am now running a vacuum pump, I no longer need my 40171. If any of you guys need one, I have two new in box. PM me.
pm sent
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