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Old 01-01-2014, 09:00 AM   #1
685 OP
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Suggestions for checking a used 5 speed?

I'm going to pick up my used R60/6 transmission. I've committed to buying it, but reserved the right to reject it if it's got obvious deficits.

So, I'm open to any suggestions for checking the box out. It will be on the tailgate of my pickup, easy to wiggle shafts, run it through the gears, etc.

TIA!

(Going to work for the next 5 or 6 hours, so I may not post any answers for a while)
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:14 AM   #2
Rob Farmer
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Theres not a lot you can do to check when it's loose.

Put it in neutral and turn the output shaft slowly, it should be smooth with a little resistance from the oil.

Then do the same with the input shaft, again it should be smooth.

Check for wear on the input splines - the teeth shouldn't be overly sharp and should be even along the length.

obviously the Gear change should work but you may need to turn the output shaft if you're going through the gears using the leverl.

Checkout the threads for the drain and neutral light.

Very important on the heavy flywheel bikes. Inspect the release bearing tunnel for signs of a groove. If the release bearings collapsed at some time in the past the whole lot can spin at engine speed rapidly wearing a groove in the tunnel that prevents a smooth action.

It's not easy to see but try and look at the input side where the oil seal sits on the input shaft. There ideally shouldn't be any sign of oil leaks. The seals go hard over time and when combined with dirt can wear a groove in the shaft. The only option is to replace the input shaft bearing.

you can see the seal marks on this one. You can also see how sharp the teeth are on the input splines.

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Old 01-01-2014, 09:30 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 685 View Post
I'm going to pick up my used R60/6 transmission. I've committed to buying it, but reserved the right to reject it if it's got obvious deficits.

So, I'm open to any suggestions for checking the box out. It will be on the tailgate of my pickup, easy to wiggle shafts, run it through the gears, etc.

TIA!

(Going to work for the next 5 or 6 hours, so I may not post any answers for a while)
I have a few extra transmissions sitting around. I've avoided selling them as I cannot verify their proper function.
All the outward signs are good but one never really can tell until they are in action. Often they will be "quirky" when attempting to "dry shift" on a bench.
I drained the oil on each one and the oil looked clean with no "chunks" on the magnets.
Hopefully I haven't been hoarding junk transmissions. These came from machines which ended their lives due engine issues so I hope they are good. I guess I'll wait until I need one and "roll the dice".
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bmwhacker screwed with this post 01-01-2014 at 09:43 AM
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:26 AM   #4
disston
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Everything that has already been said and I will repeat the one about, don't expect the shifting operation to be revealing while going through the gears. They don't shift well with out the motor turning the input. One of the major problems an Airhead 5 speed can have is popping out of gear when you apply the juice. You can't check for this until the trans is in a bike.

Some of the common places to have cracks in the case are the stand off in the lower right side for the clutch cable, the large round flange around the output shaft (where the rubber boot fits) and the stanchions for the throw out arm.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:28 AM   #5
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Rob,

I don't think that shaft is bad. It has marks but not grooves. The teeth are sharp but still looks good in that photo. Maybe it's worse in person?

Charlie
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:34 AM   #6
Rob Farmer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disston View Post
Rob,

I don't think that shaft is bad. It has marks but not grooves. The teeth are sharp but still looks good in that photo. Maybe it's worse in person?

Charlie
It's not Charlie. I did say the "seal marks" rather than the groove worn by the seal. I was just trying to point out what to check for with the oil seal. When you have that shaft in your hand the teeth are a little sharper than I'd like and the clutch plate rattles a little. It always hard to photograph old bike bits.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:39 AM   #7
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I think every one of the input shafts I have access to are just a little too sharp.

Sorry, I wasn't sure what you were saying. It's that separated by a common language problem again maybe.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:43 AM   #8
Rob Farmer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disston View Post
I think every one of the input shafts I have access to are just a little too sharp.

Sorry, I wasn't sure what you were saying. It's that separated by a common language problem again maybe.
It's my poor English that's the problem. Unfortunately I've spoken it all my life. I'll get the hang of it one day
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:13 PM   #9
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Thanks, gentlemen.

Going to go get it tomorrow. I'll print out Rob's suggestions and take them with me.

As for popping out of gear, that's the reason I'm getting another transmission. My current one won't stay in first, and makes an awful racket if you try to put it in first. Bad shift dogs.

The transmission I'm buying is a 76 R60/6, 58,000 miles, and the bike looks like the owner(s) babied it. Current owner bought it from a landlord who seized it--no title, and the guy doesn't want to sell the whole bike (I tried.) From what I've read on this forum, an R60 is one of the better candidates for a donor trans. Lower hp, less likely to have been ridden insanely, I hope.
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Old 01-02-2014, 11:40 AM   #10
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When I had my 90/6 gearbox rebuilt this summer (very poor gearchange when hot) a couple of the shifter forks needed replacing, they are NLA from BMW and none of the usual sources had any in stock. Fortunately Dave Tinkler who did the work, had a used gearbox in his workshop and robbed it for the parts.
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:41 AM   #11
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Well, I got it.

The input shaft splines, per Rob, are in great shape. The front of the trans is black, and smells slightly of gear lube, but is not wet or seeping (after 36 years and 58,000 miles.) The trans seems honest. We shall see if it's any good, installation will be next week.

Wondering if I should pry the old input seal out and replace it? I have to drive across town for the bolts that connect the drive line to the output flange, any how.

I'm getting rather excited, nice to see how the bike does with a fully functional transmission!
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:03 AM   #12
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It is possible to replace the input seal. Careful not to scratch the input bearing race it is working on. You will see the condition of the race with the old seal out. Look for a groove. Probably everything in good order. Install new seal with a deep socket of matching size. Socket should bear on the metal part of seal.
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:04 PM   #13
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i just did a trans swap - its not so bad. but you might as well check your clutch while you are in there. Mine ended up being fine so i just roughed up the disk a bit, cleaned, and put it all back in.

the only trick is you will need longer bolts m8 x1.0 (if memory serves but don't go buy them on my memory) and nuts so you can tighten the clutch back on. you also don't need the clutch centering tool, you can use the transmission to center-
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:49 PM   #14
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You need the three longer clutch bolts with nuts to loosen or tighten the clutch pack. The idea is to replace three of the six bolts holding the clutch pack together and on the flywheel with the longer bolts and then back the nuts off in stages so the plates come off evenly instead of all on one side. This supposedly prevents the plates from getting warped.

I like having the centering tool because I remember how difficult it was years ago when I couldn't afford tools to do this work and getting transmissions back on when the clutch disk wasn't centered was a big pain. I now own every possible tool I could possibly own as opposed to only the ones I could afford. There are a few tools I don't own because they are the ones that I think are not needed. The clutch disk centering tool is a good tool. It does the job with out guess work and it's not an ugly broken screwdriver wrapped with electrical tape that will also do the job.

You can also do the centering by eyeballing it and if you have never done a clutch this way then be my guest. There is enough room to stick your head behind the engine and look directly and straight on at the clutch disk. Center the hole. Then mount the transmission.

In order to center the disk by pulling the clutch arm you need 3 or 5 hands.

If removing the flywheel there is a bar tool to hold the flywheel from turning while removing the flywheel bolts. The flywheel can be help with a screwdriver in the timing window but it is easier to do this with the holding bar tool.

Make sure you use a torque wrench when putting this back together. Oil pump cover, flywheel and clutch pack should all be put on with torque wrenches.
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Old 01-05-2014, 12:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilandau View Post
i just did a trans swap - its not so bad. but you might as well check your clutch while you are in there. Mine ended up being fine so i just roughed up the disk a bit, cleaned, and put it all back in.

the only trick is you will need longer bolts m8 x1.0 (if memory serves but don't go buy them on my memory) and nuts so you can tighten the clutch back on. you also don't need the clutch centering tool, you can use the transmission to center-
You only Ned the holding down bolts and nuts on the pre 81 clutches. If the transmission fits easily in place and snugs up to the crankcase properly, then you clutch will probably be centered. I use the transmission to do this with the clutch bolts snug but not tight, then when all is fine remove transmission and tighten down bolts.
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