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Old 08-15-2014, 10:29 PM   #1
TRZ Charlie OP
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Husqvarna TR650 stupid fueling enhancement discussion

To keep the stupid questions thread, well, stupid in the "Husky TR650 Owners Stupid Questions Thread."

I am creating another thread specific to the TR650 where we can focus on all things AIT, EJK, PC5, AF-Xied, wideband and narrow band 02 sensors, LC1 and LC2.

Discuss what's working, what isn't, what devices you've tried and what enhancements you would like to see the vendors make to create a better running TR650
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:36 AM   #2
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:20 AM   #3
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Thanks for this new thread as I'm working with a Wuka King on a Strada and a Wiseco (Dobeck) on a Terra with an AF-XIED on the shelf at the moment. The jury's still out
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:33 AM   #4
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Subscribed. We should merge t=1000901 here so all the details can be compiled in one place.
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:40 PM   #5
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I am pulling my wukka and installing the EJK. Let's what she will do.
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Old 08-16-2014, 04:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwdub View Post
Thanks for this new thread as I'm working with a Wuka King on a Strada and a Wiseco (Dobeck) on a Terra with an AF-XIED on the shelf at the moment. The jury's still out
I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Wiseco. It's a bit cheaper than the EJK, but I don't think it has as many settings. I'm looking for something to correct the overly lean condition, but I don't want a temp spoofer which can be "learned" by the ECU and I don't want to use a laptop to make changes to the unit. It seems like my choices are Wiseco or EJK, but I'm new to this because I just bought the bike.
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Old 08-16-2014, 04:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ Charlie View Post
To keep the stupid questions thread, well, stupid in the "Husky TR650 Owners Stupid Questions Thread."

I am creating another thread specific to the TR650 where we can focus on all things AIT, EJK, PC5, AF-Xied, wideband and narrow band 02 sensors, LC1 and LC2.

Discuss what's working, what isn't, what devices you've tried and what enhancements you would like to see the vendors make to create a better running TR650
Great idea. That should keep things organized. Subscribed!
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Old 08-16-2014, 07:12 PM   #8
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Thanks Charlie
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:12 PM   #9
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FWIW, I just had my buddy's 2014 on the dyno yesterday to install/test a PCV. With the PCV it picked up nicely, it appears Dynojet did a nice job building the map for a stock bike. The map adds fuel thru the midrange but actually leans it on the big end - wasn't expecting to see that. For me it begs the question, how can a device (spoofer/whatever) that is only off-setting the fuel one direction (richer) get the best results?

I've read that some have issues with hanging idle w/ PCV. His bike did not. If it did though, the first thing I'd try is setting the 0% and 2% throttle tables back to zeros (or at least reducing them). Another thing I noticed is the HP gains fell off at ~7750rpm - which is where they stopped reducing the fuel by 9% on the 100% throttle map. I may put it back on dyno and play with that.

Anyway, that's what I know...







For shits/grins I compared his w/ PCV to my TE630 w/ PCV. (printer running out of ink)



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Old 08-16-2014, 08:16 PM   #10
roger 04 rt
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In order to consider which type of fueling "enhancement" you want to invest in, and what you can expect from it, it helps to know how an ECU calculates the amount of fuel (length of time the injector is pulsed open). Below is a simple outline of how the Bosch/BMW Motronic works, which is typical for a vehicle with a Throttle Position Sensor but no manifold pressure sensor, and an Oxygen sensor.

The calculations below happen continuously, thousands of times per second and are one of the the main functions of the ECU. All fueling calculations begin with an Open Loop calculation and proceed (under certain conditions) to the Closed Loop calculations.
Open Loop fueling calculations go roughly like this, performed on a millisecond by millisecond basis:
1) Read RPM and TPS: Find a base-fuel-value by using the four closest cells in the fuel table
2) Measure Engine Temperature: If not warmed-up, add a correction, otherwise skip this step
3) Measure Input Air Temperature (from the airbox IAT sensor): Apply a correction factor from a table
4) Measure Air Pressure (does the Magneti Marelli ECU have a built in sensor?): Apply a correction factor from a table
5) Measure Battery Voltage: Apply a correction factor from a table (corrects injector performance vs battery voltage)
6) Measure if TPS is moving, and how fast it is moving: add fuel if TPS opening, remove fuel if TPS closing.
7) Based on RPM/TPS: Apply Mixture Adaptation values (can be 2 or 3 or a small table) learned previously during Closed Loop
8) If the RPM or TPS is changing quickly, if the Throttle is open very wide, or if the engine is cold, fire injector for calculated time and go back to step 1, otherwise continue to step 8

Closed Loop fueling steps
9) Apply the most recent Lambda Control Factor (LCF) (short term fuel trim)
10) Read the O2 sensor and determine whether to increase or decrease the LCF so as to remain close to Lambda = 1 (or a shifted value)
11) Determine whether to update any Mixture Adaptation values (long term fuel trim)
11) Fire injector for calculated time and go back to step 1

The two yellow-highlighted steps are how the ECU learns and applies the corrections called Mixture Adaptations and how what is learned during the Closed Loop calculations gets applied to the Open Loop fueling calculations. It is elegant and powerful, and must be understood before making changes to a Closed Loop fueling system.

A key observation is that Open Loop and Closed Loop fueling are not separate processes. Closed Loop steps occur as often as possible so that the mixture stays as close to the O2 sensor switch point as possible, to keep the catalytic converter happy.

Type of Enhancements

1. Products that disconnect the O2 sensor and disable the ECU Closed Loop corrections: Powercommander and EJK. Both systems lengthen the fueling pulse after it leaves the ECU, on the way to the injectors. Usually an ECU goes into Limp Home Mode if the O2 sensor is disconnected, and the ECU can no longer calculate fuel trims.

2. Products that maintain closed loop but attempt to shift "open loop fueling", such as an IAT-shifter. In order to believe that these products work, you have to believe that there are no long term fuel trims.

3. Products that change oxygen sensor switching point lambda-shifters. Normally a narrowband O2 sensor switches between 200 and 800 mV exactly at lambda=1 (14.7:1 for gasoline). These products work by replacing the stock signal with one that switches between 200 and 800 mV at a richer lambda (e.g. Lambda=0.96, which is 13.8:1 for gasoline). The ECU then learns to add fuel in Closed Loop and create RICHER long term fuel trims. Examples of this type of product are the Innovate Motorsports LC-2 & MXT-L and the Nightrider AF-XIED.

Apologies for the length of this.
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:41 PM   #11
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So you've obviously studied this a lot more than I have . What are you proposing is the best solution?

My only comment/observation for the closed loop/open loop debate centers on the accuracy of O2 sensors on big thumpers with the exhaust pipe fully exposed to the airstream... What I observed with my TE on the dyno and the Innovate LM1 sensor in the factory bung - as soon as I turned on the dyno cooling fan I got erratic reading from the O2. I messed with it a while and decided if open loop was good enough for gen1 'busas and my 919 it was good enough for the TE. With out good data coming from the O2 closed loop was a loosing battle.

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Old 08-16-2014, 09:33 PM   #12
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Why not adding an autotune?
Closed loop functionality is a very good thing to have for fuel economy and varying elevations.

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Old 08-16-2014, 09:35 PM   #13
TRZ Charlie OP
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As most of you know I am running the AF-XIED device on my bike. I leave Monday for 14-16 days along the Mississippi River. The XIED is set on F7 at the moment which has cured most of my problems with some minor stumbling while the o2 sensor is warming.

On the south bound leg of my trip I am going to switch it to F6 to see if the bike behaves the same (which I am hopeful) and at the same time see minor gains in fuel economy.

At the end of the trip I am going to conclude my "beta" test with XIED on the TR650 and mount an LC2 on my bike. This will/should provide us with a plethora of information regarding how our ECU works. Right now I am concentrating on packing and getting the bike ready for a 2100 mile trip.

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Old 08-16-2014, 10:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ Charlie View Post
As most of you know I am running the AF-XIED device on my bike. I leave Monday for 1416 days along the Mississippi River. The XIED is set on F7 at the moment which has cured most of my problems with some minor stumbling while the o2 sensor is warming.

On the south bound leg of my trip I am going to switch it to F6 to see if the bike behaves the same (which I am hopeful) and at the same time see minor gains in fuel economy.

At the end of the trip I am going to conclude my "beta" test with XIED on the TR650 and mount an LC2 on my bike. This will/should provide us with a plethora of information regarding how our ECU works. Right now I am concentrating on packing and getting the bike ready for a 2100 mile trip.
Can you get a photo of your spark plugs before and after?
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Old 08-17-2014, 02:11 AM   #15
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Well I am at a total loss which way to go. I am needing a cause/reason why my engine failed. My biggest suspect t has been the TPS being set at the restricted 70% maximum range, instead of 83%. The importer has claimed that the ecu could adapt out this minor issue. I even asked them how it could because my wot would be certainly running in a open loop mode. I figure the ecu must have been missing some 13% in it's air intake volume calculations. The importer dismissed this theory as rubbish and the ECU would adapt.
So the blame is on the pod filter now somehow increasing airflow by some sort of substantial amount that the ecu could not adapt for the change.
The importer was/is keen for me to fit and dyno tune it with a PC-V, and that should prevent future engine failure/damage.
I like the idea of the LC-2 also very much. So when they patch this engine back up which way should I go?

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