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Old 04-04-2008, 09:47 PM   #76
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonsr
...

i'll never understand why folks put up with the ridiculous service requirements of harleys/bmws. can't people just concede that the japanese have the technology down pat? it won't be until sales suffer that manufacturers get their act together.
...
abe
Ride one for a few day and you will know.

Do a few services on each, and you will see the difference.

Jim
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Old 04-05-2008, 04:10 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward
Bueller- don't discount the complexity of the valve check. I think it's rated an 8-hour job in the dealer book; I know a lot of experienced mechanics that still pay someone else to spin the wrenches for that one.
It's no worse than many other shim-adjusted valve trains. Certainly can't be as labor-intensive as the clutch and trans seals I did on my '02 R1150 RT. And none of this stuff holds a candle to the jobs I used to do in the car business.

After 25 years spent making my living in vehicle service (mostly as an Auto Tech) I've come to the conclusion that most repairs and services seem worse than they really are. The first time I pulled a transmission out of an Oilhead BMW I thought "this is friggin' ridiculous". The 2nd time I pulled one I had it apart in a couple of hours without breaking a sweat.
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Old 04-05-2008, 05:52 AM   #78
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It's interesting, I ride a 1998 Suzuki B-1200 and have no problems. 33K and going strong.

Tappet valves are easy to check and adjust.

And by the way, I'm a Yamaha Master Outboard Technician and all the larger outboard use shim and bucket valves. Other than ones messed with by dopes, I've yet to find one that needs adjustment. Even with engines that have 1000 + hours on them or the equivalent of 40K-60K miles on them.
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:02 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonsr
i'll never understand why folks put up with the ridiculous service requirements of harleys/bmws. can't people just concede that the japanese have the technology down pat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Do a few services on each, and you will see the difference.

Jim
Ridiculous??? My BMW has been the easiest and least maintenance intensive bike I have owned. Harley's? Don't they have hydraulic valves that don't need adjusting??? As for Japanese bikes, yes they make a well engineered bike, but in my mind no better or no worse than a BMW, Harley or Triumph. I had more Japanese bikes than BMWs but we just bought 2 Triumphs. My Kawasaki Meanstreak had a coolant leak that I could not track down, replaced hoses, clamps etc. never enough to worry about but you smelled hot antifreeze every time you rode. Just adjusted the valves on my riding buddies Suzuki V-Strom so had the bike stripped pretty good with rad off etc. He has had a coolant leak for the past year and flushed the rad replaced hoses and clamps and everything looked good till the next day riding it and he's still got his coolant leak. He's going to buy a Honda ST1300 this year and was asking the local service manager if there were any problem spots to look out for on the ST. He said nope, the motors an anvil, will run forever, valve adjustments are easy and infrequently needed, BUT he said coolant leaks will drive you crazy. Never bad enough to leave you stranded but just an annoyance smelling coolant every time you ride.

I think coolant leaks are the dirty little secret of liquid cooled Japanese bikes. Sure they'll never use a drop of oil, but try to keep coolant in them and good luck.

A few years ago, I wouldn't buy anything that wasn't liquid cooled with a shaft drive. I've done a complete 180 now and personally won't touch anything that's liquid cooled and as I said we just bought two ACH! chain driven, air/oil cooled bikes! Valve adjustment intervals on the Triumphs are every 20,000kms, twice the BMWs and being shim under bucket they'll most likely just need checking NOT adjusting, I install Scott Oilers on the chain drive so that's mostly just fill and forget for 1500kms, just the occasional chain tensioning.

It's hard to buy a BAD bike now a days, you just need to decide what nits will drive you crazy and what bike will make you smile, then the nits just become "character".

PS We still own 3 Japanese bikes: 2 DRs (air cooled) and one Ninja (liquid cooled), but one's for sale, guess which one?
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:26 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller
It's no worse than many other shim-adjusted valve trains. Certainly can't be as labor-intensive as the clutch and trans seals I did on my '02 R1150 RT. And none of this stuff holds a candle to the jobs I used to do in the car business.

After 25 years spent making my living in vehicle service (mostly as an Auto Tech) I've come to the conclusion that most repairs and services seem worse than they really are. The first time I pulled a transmission out of an Oilhead BMW I thought "this is friggin' ridiculous". The 2nd time I pulled one I had it apart in a couple of hours without breaking a sweat.
Impossible to have confidence you can effect the repair and then do the assembly properly unless you've already done it.

Doesn't really make a diff how complex the repair job is. Frex, I had to remove a bunch of bash plates and other simple structures to do an oil filter change on a truck. I'd never done the work before. I approached the disassembly and sorting of the removed parts with as much care as I would if I were deep within the engine.

Next time I'll just fly through it.
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:52 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slide
Impossible to have confidence you can effect the repair and then do the assembly properly unless you've already done it.

Doesn't really make a diff how complex the repair job is. Frex, I had to remove a bunch of bash plates and other simple structures to do an oil filter change on a truck. I'd never done the work before. I approached the disassembly and sorting of the removed parts with as much care as I would if I were deep within the engine.

Next time I'll just fly through it.
Sounds like the first time I took the plastic off the RT.
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:26 AM   #82
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With very few exceptions, I find the vast majority of Jap bikes incredibly boring.. When was the last time Honda produced anything that really got one's juices flowing? ('90 GB500?..) The new Kaw C14 is one that I do like, but not enough to replace any of the bikes in my current stable with.

Triumphs, (mosts) HD's, Ducs, Beemers, Guzzis.. all have a personality.

From 50' it's hard to tell a Yamaha from a Kaw from Suzuki from a Honda.
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Old 04-05-2008, 10:27 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by NCGS
With very few exceptions, I find the vast majority of Jap bikes incredibly boring.. When was the last time Honda produced anything that really got one's juices flowing? ('90 GB500?..) The new Kaw C14 is one that I do like, but not enough to replace any of the bikes in my current stable with.

Triumphs, (mosts) HD's, Ducs, Beemers, Guzzis.. all have a personality.

From 50' it's hard to tell a Yamaha from a Kaw from Suzuki from a Honda.
I guess we agree. Our only bike of 4 which is Japanese is my wife's DRZ 400. I'm full of admiration for the production and engineering in the Japanese products, but it doesn't cause me to open my wallet or comment on how interesting they are.

The two interesting bikes hitting my horizon lately have been a Duc or two and the new Harley Cross Bones (for style).
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Old 04-05-2008, 03:49 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Ride one for a few day and you will know.

Do a few services on each, and you will see the difference.

Jim
i have...to me, all motorcycles eventually end up being "just motorcycles" after a few miles.

today my bike started stumbling in the middle of a right-hander...it continued to stumble and cut out.






i couldn't figure it out...every time i'd crack the throttle on it'd stumble and/or cut off.






boy was i worried.




so i put gas in it...cured the problem...i guess the useable tank capacity is 4.6 out of the 4.8gallon total capacity. lesson learned.

abe
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Old 04-05-2008, 04:12 PM   #85
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonsr
i have...to me, all motorcycles eventually end up being "just motorcycles" after a few miles....abe
Which completely explains your perception.

Bikes are, should be, a passion! They should speak to you!

You obviously see them as transportation, or a means to an end!

Jim
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Old 04-05-2008, 04:18 PM   #86
NMRoadRunner
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Wicked The FJR is the 08 Sport/tour of the year

in most mags and they tested a 07 FJR against all others 08's Iv'e got 12000 miles and have only done the required service to it as well. I bought an 89 Transalp so I'd have something to tinker with, and it really dosen't need much either. Maybe I'll pick up a HD so I'll have somthing to work on next winter
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Old 04-05-2008, 04:49 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Which completely explains your perception.

Bikes are, should be, a passion! They should speak to you!

You obviously see them as transportation, or a means to an end!

Jim
?? Just because you have your own definition of what a bike should mean doesnt mean everyone is going to agree with it.

Problem is that alot of people substitute passion with bikes and thats a really sad excuse for not having passion.
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Old 04-05-2008, 05:34 PM   #88
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Took a good look at an FJR today. Not my cup of tea but that's for these type of bikes in general not the FJR in particular. Of the bunch I prefer the RT as I'm a boxer fan but for the money I would still buy a Bandit (12K CAD loaded), similar power and weight of the FJR and RT at half the price of both (RT and FJR both start at 19K in Canada) or a new Tiger or Sprint ST. The Sprint would be my likeliest choice, just a bit more than the Bandit but better styling but the FJR is a nice looking bike and it does haul from what I've seen on the road.
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Old 04-05-2008, 06:49 PM   #89
bostonsr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Which completely explains your perception.

Bikes are, should be, a passion! They should speak to you!

You obviously see them as transportation, or a means to an end!

Jim
riding is my passion.

as much as i love bikes...i know that the act of riding is the part that is the most rewarding and difficult aspect, to me. what "matters" is how well I ride...not WHAT I ride.

the magazines and manufacturers will do all they can to make you feel that your bike needs to be upgraded to the latest/fanciest thing out there...but when it comes down to that decreasing radius, gravel-strewn, off-camber, left-hander...the bike isn't gonna be what saves you, it'll be your judgement and your actions.

having all the fancy schmancy "engineering" and "design" makes not one bit of difference if the rider is incompetent...which many of us are to a greater degree than we'd like to imagine.

abe
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bostonsr screwed with this post 04-05-2008 at 06:54 PM
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Old 04-05-2008, 06:56 PM   #90
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hey scorch, tell us how passionate you are about your latest bike!

or are you not a real rider? lol.

abe
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