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Old 12-16-2008, 03:11 PM   #1591
scottmac
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Location: La Selva Beach, CA.
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Just saw over on TT that someone emailed Scotts.

"Dear Customer,



We are working on it. We should have this completed at
the first of the year. If you leave me your number we can
call you when it is completed.



Thank You,

Jake

Scotts Performance

818-248-6747"

Just in time to go with those new gas tanks.
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:12 PM   #1592
HighFive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordo5
Guess which wannabe lurker (well, mostly lurker) has finally joined the club.....



HF, I don't care how scientific or accurate your tests are, it's the deltas that are interesting. Looks like the Q4/powerbomb combo does pretty well compared to stock - looking forward to hearing your general impression of sound levels once you've had a chance to live with it a bit. btw, thanks for your comments on the stabalizer... food for thought.
FANTASTIC Gordo!!! And it even got a tailrack already.
I waited 2 months for mine!
And she's even got a "butt tuck".
Forget the cold....go ride!

Regarding my sound test, I agree with you about the "deltas". You can see my measurements were at least reasonably consistent. I have no idea why the readings were so high. I did everything to spec...except measure rpm with a Tachometer. I was 20" from the exhaust port, perpendicular to a line on a 45 degree angle. Exactly like the diagram in the "Link" I referenced. Maybe I was reving too high. But, I sure could make the bike "still go higher" by cranking more throttle.

I checked rpm versus throttle opening on my KLR first. It has a Tach. Got about 4,000 rpm with 1/4 throttle and about 8,000 rpm with 1/2 throttle (in Neutral). I did the same thing on my son's KLX 250 and produced similar results. So, I figured I had a good enough reference point for general rpm level (in Neutral). Just a self-determined Rule of Thumb.

I just finished a Dyno test, so I know peak power is around 8,000 rpm (+/-). It seemed reasonable to conclude that 1/4 throttle would generate something close to 50% of Peak Power. Again, I'm not so concerned with actual decibel level as I am with the differences between the measurements. Its not like this is a hard, complicated procedure. Its quite easy to do, actually.

FIDOLLAZ...... Since you've performed real field test on MXer's all season long, I'd like to know a little more about your actual procedure. How did you establish a consistent point for 50% of Peak Power on so many different bikes....all of which don't have Tachs? Did you attach one of those vibrating - magnetic tachs, or what? How much throttle turn was typically related to your measurements? Tell me how to correct my process....and I can easily repeat the test. Otherwise, send me your equipment, I'll use it to measure same way you do, and then send it back to you. Beyond that, oh well...

ScottMac, how did they do the field test for your event? Position, throttle turn, etc?

HF

HighFive screwed with this post 12-16-2008 at 05:18 PM
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Old 12-16-2008, 06:35 PM   #1593
rufus
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Hey HF. Your sound readings seem high. I helped with the sound tests at the AMA ISDE qualifiers we had at the Zink ranch years ago. Several things affect the readings. Any Wind will give you very high readings. Where you stand affects the meter. You should be standing next to the footpeg/seat area as close to the bike as possible with you back towards the front wheel. If you are standing beside the muffler, sound will bounce off you and give higher readings. ANYTHING that vibrates on the bike can peg the meter. Exhaust springs, flapping side panel, a footpeg rattling around. Many aftermarket mufflers are very thin and the thin metals vibrates and rings. Even though we can barely hear it, it will send the meter way up. Many riders would put a boot on the exhaust to absorb the vibration. This WOULD lower the readings remarkably. Air cooled bikes can't hardly pass a sound test because of the cylinder fins ringing. ..........Happy Trails!!!




p.s. We used those virbating tachometers. We were told by the AMA that they were the most accurate.
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:15 PM   #1594
CopaMundial
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Well HF you just can't win with this audience I guess.
The jury has spoken and your dyno readings are too low and your sound readings are too high.
Funny that your specific numbers get challenged so much, while other people review things and just post generalizations with no quantitative support and no one makes a peep.

It doesn't matter to me if the dyno (or sound level meter) was calibrated, and it doesn't even really matter to me what method you used for the tests.
The point is, if you use the same meter (or dyno or whatever) and the same method then we are able to make some really good comparisons between stock and modded bikes.

Thanks again for taking the time to gather the numbers.


Congrats on the bike Gordo! Great find.
What, might I ask, is in that cage?
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:38 PM   #1595
derangedhermit
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HF, if you re-do the sound comparo, please consider making audio recordings as part of it. Say a 10-second sample at whatever settings you measure at anyway.

Then I (or you, or anybody) could download them and load them into something like Audacity, and compare levels, where the power in the spectrum is, stuff like that. Oh, and listen to them too.
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:10 PM   #1596
Jeremy1981
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Talking I can quit lurking, and play too!

Well, maybe not how I want to- no R (yet, or for a while) but to go back a day or so, I used to race bicycles. My Castelli bike shorts (bibs) were the best I ever used, and lasted the longest- they're not cheap though! Pearl Izumi were ok, and much cheaper. Louis Garneaux were marginally better than PI, but didn't fit my body as well. The chamois in the Castelli was the softest, most flexible, and most comfortable, even on the tender nether regions after a 4+ hour day in the saddle.

Hope this can help some.

While I'm here, how feasible does the Collective think it would be to pack up the R for some light touring- what kind of weight limitations would you say the lack of substantial subframe poses? Could a ~11 pound tent, plus pad, sleeping bag, light weight stove, and a few days' worth of food and clothing be safely/comfortably carried, to make minimalist touring possible? I'm looking for excuses to make the R my everything bike, commute daily year round, fun ride, and light tour. I think it could be so much more than a KLR!

[returns to pipe-dreams of riding, prlly a year off still due to job/family]

Jeremy
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:31 PM   #1597
gordo5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CopaMundial
Congrats on the bike Gordo! Great find.
What, might I ask, is in that cage?
Shit, you had to ask eh? Now I have to post up on a motorcycle forum and confess to owning a friggin' bunny rabbit.

Oh ya, think that's funny? Don't underestimate these things, they're really quite dangerous! Typical low lying wires have a survival rate of about 10 sec, often less! We're pretty good at keeping it at bay, but the first year was quite harrowing. They truly are to be feared and avoided at all costs!

Thanks CM and HF.
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:54 PM   #1598
DaymienRules
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy1981
what kind of weight limitations would you say the lack of substantial subframe poses?
I thought the subframe looked overbuilt. I expected it to be aluminum, not a steel ladder design. Service manual lists a max rider/cargo weight of 408lbs. In about a month I should have racks mounted, at which point I intend to find the stuff-carrying limits the hard way. And by hard way I mean fun way.
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Old 12-17-2008, 06:23 AM   #1599
montesa_vr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CopaMundial
Well HF you just can't win with this audience I guess.
The jury has spoken and your dyno readings are too low and your sound readings are too high.

It doesn't matter to me if the dyno (or sound level meter) was calibrated, and it doesn't even really matter to me what method you used for the tests.

The point is, if you use the same meter (or dyno or whatever) and the same method then we are able to make some really good comparisons between stock and modded bikes.

Thanks again for taking the time to gather the numbers.
Yes, well said. We should be giving this guy a medal for spending his own money and doing all this research and instead he's getting a bunch of crap. As long as HF keeps doing repeatable tests with the same bike and same measuring equipment, I'll be stuck reading this thread every night.
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Old 12-17-2008, 06:57 AM   #1600
Zadok08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CopaMundial
Well HF you just can't win with this audience I guess.
The jury has spoken and your dyno readings are too low and your sound readings are too high.
Funny that your specific numbers get challenged so much, while other people review things and just post generalizations with no quantitative support and no one makes a peep.

It doesn't matter to me if the dyno (or sound level meter) was calibrated, and it doesn't even really matter to me what method you used for the tests.
The point is, if you use the same meter (or dyno or whatever) and the same method then we are able to make some really good comparisons between stock and modded bikes.

Thanks again for taking the time to gather the numbers.


Congrats on the bike Gordo! Great find.
What, might I ask, is in that cage?
Is kind of interesting isnt it? HF takes the time to do the testing,
then more time to post results, and then he gets jumped for
"not doing it right".

Just makes you wonder why those same people dont just go
do it the "right way" themselves......Oh yeah, it takes time
and money.

I know HF, and I will say he enjoys doing the comparisons
and testing. But at the same time, he doesnt have to
take the time to share either.

Thanks HF, interesting numbers on the differences between
those. It will be interesting to see where my Powercore 4
is in that lineup.
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:39 AM   #1601
Jaynen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaymienRules
I thought the subframe looked overbuilt. I expected it to be aluminum, not a steel ladder design. Service manual lists a max rider/cargo weight of 408lbs. In about a month I should have racks mounted, at which point I intend to find the stuff-carrying limits the hard way. And by hard way I mean fun way.
Daymien did you ever move forward with crower on the cams thing?
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Old 12-17-2008, 08:50 AM   #1602
HighFive
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Its alright....I don't take it personal. I'm more perplexed than anyone. I'd love to know how to "do the test properly" if I'm missing something. I did everything precisely as spec'd in the technical bulletin (except for the lack of Tachometer).

Rufus made a good suggestion: stand away from the Sound Meter; stand near the seat and reach out far with my arm....if I can reach that far (I donno). The Specification didn't say anything about where you stand or how you hold the Sound Meter. I had my son stand at the 45 degree line and simply hold the meter out in front of his waist with the microphone at the 20" mark (I used a measured & marked string). The microphone is not pointing at the muffler. It is pointing at the string (i.e. perpendicular to the 45 degree line)....just like shown in the Specification Diagram.

Performed test way out in the middle of an open area over grass, during no wind or other interfering noises. I too felt the readings were high. So, I was quite puzzled. Reviewed all the procedures again. Repeated the test & got same results. Got consistently similar results on each run and every bike. I've tested my KLR, my 950 with Akrapovics (results censored), even my daughters PW80. So...go figure!

Rufus lives in my town. I think I'll have him come over and perform the test himself and see what happens. I can verify that he did indeed work the ISDE in Tulsa a few years ago. I also have a 2nd Sound Meter at Church...identical to the one used. I'll compare both to double check calibration.

HF
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:46 AM   #1603
scottmac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFive

ScottMac, how did they do the field test for your event? Position, throttle turn, etc?

HF
The HS we rode in was not an AMA/ISDE event, just a
local club race. Nothing really fancy or technical for a
sound check involved. The testing guy just had us
have the bike running at idle with no hand on the
throttle and grabbed a reading. Then another with
the bike at 1/4 throttle.

Slapped a cert sticker on the front numberplate and off you went.

They have an actual State certified and operated sound
checking station out at the Hollister Hills SRV. I'll swing
by the next time I ride out there and see if somebody's
doing measurements.

That way its "Official" - you can't argue with the State
of California!
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Old 12-17-2008, 10:07 AM   #1604
BigDogAdventures
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More Stuff

Want to thank HF and many others again---lot's of info here to pick up on.
Don't know I'd pay a lot of attention to me-----I'm old and slow


Even tho I'm putting info on what I'm doing with my bike on here-----it'll get all spread out all over the place.

If you so desire to keep track of all I'm doing to my bike in one place you can bookmark what I'm doing here:

http://bigdogadventures.com/WR250R.htm



Meanwhile----I've got my no count lazy dog on watch for the UPS man.
One bark---it's the amish riding by on horses--he hates horses.
2 barks----wife is home from work. Good to have some warning
3 barks---he's got to pee
4 barks--and he's running frantically around the house and then tries to tear down the side door---it's the UPS man---man he hates him.

I don't know why my dogs hates the UPS person so much
He's always trying to beat me to the door.





I had this brand new set of Cycra Pro-Bends laying around as I tried to put them on my KLR--that was
a no go with the KLR fairing. I ordered triple tree front mounts for the KLR but had to re-order triple tree
side mounts for the WR. I won't mount handguards to the handlebars---to difficult and usually the handlebars
are way to cluttered anyway. I had to bend these aluminum handguards a little to get them to line up.
This is not an easy thing to do because they are so thick. I heat them up a little--not to hot as aluminum
can go molten in the blink of an eye---and hit them with a rubber hammer while they were mounted
firmly in a vise----no problem-o
Thats "no problem" for you gringo's !!!!!


Here is a close-up of the triple tree side mounts that Cycra sells.
I wanted the Zeta's with the blinkers but didn't want handlebar mounts.






Stocks tires are on the bike and I'll try to leave them on there as long as possible for break in and short rides.
The trailwings on the bike are not what I will run while I own the bike. I could care less if a tire is DOT approved
or not----but I need a rear tire that will last at least 3,000 miles---that forces a rider to select a DOT tire.
The tire on the right will go on the rear and is a DOT approved Dunlop 120/90 18" 606.
The front will be a non DOT Dunlop 256---very pointy and prickly tire !!!!
A non DOT tire will last a long time on the front---if I get a ticket for it------so what.
__________________
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KTM EXC 450 2006
Husqvarna TR650 Terra 2013
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If your bike weighs more than 400lbs. You might not make it.

BigDogAdventures screwed with this post 12-17-2008 at 10:58 AM
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Old 12-17-2008, 10:08 AM   #1605
DaymienRules
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaynen
Daymien did you ever move forward with crower on the cams thing?
I did. Dan ground a custom intake cam and dyno tested for about 2 weeks. The cam really made no significant hp increase, so he deemed that it wasn't worth pursuing at the time. He believes the exhaust was the limiting factory on the stock bike, and was trying to get a DRD exhaust to play with. I still have the cam installed and will work with Dan on any future engine mods I do. He also said it was one of the most difficult bikes to work on that he'd dealt with in a while, so thats fun.
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