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Old 09-09-2013, 11:59 AM   #37801
byron555
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Sprockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_l View Post
We keep perpetuating the idea that front sprocket size is the cause, but plenty of folks are running 12 and 13 sprockets without chewing up the sliders. I think after years of discussion, I think all we know for sure is that it must be caused by a combination of factors.

Theories include front sprocket size, loading, and chain tension (both loose & tight).

I have ~3,500 miles on a 12T front and minimal slider wear.

The 14t just makes proper chain tension less finicky. Greater tolerance for too tight. The thing is if you are in need of new sprockets and chain, why not go with the 14t and go with the higher margin of error?

That is what I did, and it does work better, not that the 12t or 13t can work.
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:06 PM   #37802
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>"I think all we know for sure is that it must be caused by a combination of factors."

Yup.

That said... I don't know of anyone who prematurely wears out the chain guard after installing a 14T sprocket.

Anyone else comment with a 14t sprocket - ie wearing out the guard ???
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:18 PM   #37803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_l View Post
We keep perpetuating the idea that front sprocket size is the cause, but plenty of folks are running 12 and 13 sprockets without chewing up the sliders. I think after years of discussion, I think all we know for sure is that it must be caused by a combination of factors.
Agreed. I measured the difference in radius between the 12T and 13T sprokets and it's like 1/16" of an inch. So it could eat an extra 1/16" into your swingarm guard using the 12 over the 13, but that guard is like 3/8 thick, so something is accounting for the other 5/16" eating your swingarm guard that ain't the sprocket.

Get a good chain, lube it well and often and keep the tension properly set and I bet that would solve most problems.
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:45 PM   #37804
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Pushing up on the chain between the chain roller and chain guide bolt, I have the toolkit wrench width between the chain and the swingarm. Sound adequate?
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:57 PM   #37805
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Originally Posted by Luke308 View Post
Pushing up on the chain between the chain roller and chain guide bolt, I have the toolkit wrench width between the chain and the swingarm. Sound adequate?
It depends on the size of your sprockets. Larger sprockets put the chain further away from the swingarm. Also depends on how much the rear shock is compressed while you're measuring.

There is one and only one way of determining the correct chain tension. Put the bike on a stand, remove the rear shock and lift the rear wheel until the rear axle, swingarm pivot, and countershaft sprocket are all in a line. Rotate the wheel to find the tightest spot in the chain and adjust the chain for a "little" slack at this point. Remember that if you're riding in mud the chain will tighten up as it collects mud, so a little extra slack (I like 1/2" inch or so) is good. This only needs to be performed once, unless you change your sprocket sizes. You can then put the bike back together and measure the chain slack in whatever manner is convenient for you. Always check it the same way, for the same value you recorded, and you're golden.

Also note while you have the shock off that past the "everything in a line" point, the chain will contact the bottom of the slider. Your slider wear is proportional to the amount of time your suspension spends in this position. So, if your bike is carrying a heavy load and/or your static sag is too much, it will wear faster. It will also wear faster if you're riding a lot of rough offroad and the rear suspension is compressing to this point often. A smaller front sprocket puts the chain closer to the slider, so it will contact the slider more often as well.

There are a few other outliers that can cause accelerated wear. If your chain is kinked, it will contact the slider as it comes off the front sprocket accelerating wear. If your chain is stupid loose, it will slap around and contact the slider more. If you get debris jammed in the rear chain guide, it can push the chain up and contact the slider.

I also suspect that some chains tend to wear the slider faster than others. Some have nice rounded edges on the outer links and some are more square. This is just a theory at this point. More research is needed.

There is no single reason why the slider wears. It is a combination of all of the above.

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Old 09-09-2013, 01:21 PM   #37806
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Lots of people seem resistant to compressing the suspension to line the countershaft, pivot, and axle up then adjust the chain. That is the best way to make certain the chain is neither too loose or too tight. It's pretty easy on these bikes with a ratchet strap to the sub frame.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:26 PM   #37807
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Originally Posted by bluzharp View Post
Lots of people seem resistant to compressing the suspension to line the countershaft, pivot, and axle up then adjust the chain. That is the best way to make certain the chain is neither too loose or too tight. It's pretty easy on these bikes with a ratchet strap to the sub frame.
I've done it that way with ratchet straps, it works and there's nothing wrong with it, but it puts a huge static load on the subframe and makes me nervous. Pulling the shock or lower link is easy on the WRR, so that's my preferred method. It's a good time to grease the shock linkage bearings, and like I said, it only has to be done once.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:51 PM   #37808
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Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
(I like 1/2" inch or so)
Are you talking about 1/2" vertical free play? or 1/2" from top of chain to swingarm?

Thanks for in depth reply! I appreciate it!
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:26 PM   #37809
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Originally Posted by Luke308 View Post
Are you talking about 1/2" vertical free play? or 1/2" from top of chain to swingarm?

Thanks for in depth reply! I appreciate it!
1/2" vertical free play. I don't actually measure it. The key is that the chain should not be under any tension at this point. Be sure the rotate the wheel several times and find the spot where the chain is the tightest. It will vary because chains don't wear evenly and the sprockets aren't always perfectly round.
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:31 PM   #37810
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Gotcha, thanks. I'm also going to take the time and properly adjust my suspension (haven't touched it since I got it from the PO), to ensure I'm not going past the center of travel unnecessarily, and causing premature wear on the slider.
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:53 PM   #37811
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Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
I've done it that way with ratchet straps, it works and there's nothing wrong with it, but it puts a huge static load on the subframe and makes me nervous. Pulling the shock or lower link is easy on the WRR, so that's my preferred method. It's a good time to grease the shock linkage bearings, and like I said, it only has to be done once.
The subframe is very strong on these bikes and not a concern if using a reasonable bit of common sense when hooking up the strap. Pulling the shock linkage is only slightly more work and another way to accomplish the same thing. The chain tension does have to be rechecked periodically, especially after a few hundred miles on a new chain.
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:54 PM   #37812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
I've done it that way with ratchet straps, it works and there's nothing wrong with it, but it puts a huge static load on the subframe and makes me nervous. Pulling the shock or lower link is easy on the WRR, so that's my preferred method. It's a good time to grease the shock linkage bearings, and like I said, it only has to be done once.
I'm not sure about any huge load being applied that the subrame isn't already designed for.

I can compress the rear shock to almost bringing the three points in line, simply using my body weight drooped over the seat while I take any slack out in the ratchet strap. Then a few clicks and thats it.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:15 PM   #37813
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Got another question. Assuming a stock setup (no lowering links) where should the forks be in the clamps? I read about people "lowering the fork legs" (usually in conjunction with a lowering link) but that makes no sense to me at all. The fork stay motionless in relation to the ground and any adjustments would be raising or lowering the clamps. So for the adjustment range on the forks, should the clamps be at the top or bottom? I'm 6'3" so no lowering is wanted or needed.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:53 PM   #37814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke308 View Post
Got another question. Assuming a stock setup (no lowering links) where should the forks be in the clamps? I read about people "lowering the fork legs" (usually in conjunction with a lowering link) but that makes no sense to me at all. The fork stay motionless in relation to the ground and any adjustments would be raising or lowering the clamps. So for the adjustment range on the forks, should the clamps be at the top or bottom? I'm 6'3" so no lowering is wanted or needed.

If you are riding a stock bike, leave the forks at OEM setting. If you lower the rear, you would raise the fork in the clamp. If you raised the rear, you would lower the forks in the clamp.
The top of the fork would be even with the top of the clamp. The cap would be above the clamp(for stock).
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:08 PM   #37815
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The top of my forks are flush with the top of my clamps, any reason to change it? When I bought my bike from the PO it sounded like everything was stock, but the more I mess with it, it seems like a lot of things were custom tuned for the PO.
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