Oil filter depth gap: The $2000 O-ring.

[AliBaba]

Originally Posted by drhach

This may be the place to ask a question that I have regarding the oil pickup tube in an airhead. I have a non-oil cooler bike. I bought a thermostatically controlled oil cooler and the appropriate pick up tube to convert my bike. So, my question is, how the hell do I get the old pickup tube out? It's screwed in tighter than a virgin on prom night. Is there a special wrench (for the tube, not the virgin)?

Apply plenty of heat on the left side of the engine.

[jb]

This is a timely discussion for me. I am in the middle of my second ever airhead oil/filter change on my '83 R80ST. When I did my first one, I did so without a lot of thought. I replaced the filter and an O-ring and that was that.

5 months and barely 500 miles later (too much R12GS and new steering bearings on the R80ST), I decided to educate myself a bit more and started doing some research. I've read snowbum's stuff and now this thread and its links. I stopped by the local non-dealer shop to pick up a filter, an o-ring and drain plug washer. What do you know, he recommends replacing the cover gasket.

Armed with all my new found info, I tell him that I thought the gasket was not needed, but he insisted and I left with one anyway. When I got home and removed the cover, there is a gasket in place! I didn't even notice it was on there last time.

The o-ring looks deformed and I have one shim. My oil pressure light has never gone on after starting the engine. I suspect that my "canister distance" is on the small side and the gasket isn't making much of a difference. There are at least 3000 miles on that gasket.

So, do I replace the cover gasket or not? I am going to buy a caliper to measure the distance. If I do not replace the gasket, do I add another shim?

[Stagehand]

Originally Posted by jb

This is a timely discussion for me. I am in the middle of my second ever airhead oil/filter change on my '83 R80ST. When I did my first one, I did so without a lot of thought. I replaced the filter and an O-ring and that was that.

5 months and barely 500 miles later (too much R12GS and new steering bearings on the R80ST), I decided to educate myself a bit more and started doing some research. I've read snowbum's stuff and now this thread and its links. I stopped by the local non-dealer shop to pick up a filter, an o-ring and drain plug washer. What do you know, he recommends replacing the cover gasket.

Armed with all my new found info, I tell him that I thought the gasket was not needed, but he insisted and I left with one anyway. When I got home and removed the cover, there is a gasket in place! I didn't even notice it was on there last time.

The o-ring looks deformed and I have one shim. My oil pressure light has never gone on after starting the engine. I suspect that my "canister distance" is on the small side and the gasket isn't making much of a difference. There are at least 3000 miles on that gasket.

So, do I replace the cover gasket or not? I am going to buy a caliper to measure the distance. If I do not replace the gasket, do I add another shim?

In your case, I wouldnt change anything, as it seemed to be working just fine. Check it in the future, if it really drives you nuts, but problems will come where there were none if you go changing it up just for the sake of it. As Anton said, they came from the factory at many different, seemingly random depths, (within two or three mm)

[datchew]

Originally Posted by jb

The o-ring looks deformed and I have one shim.

Done. If it's good to go, replace and install exactly like it came apart unless your new calipers tell you different.

Concur with Stage.

[opposedcyljunkie]

Originally Posted by Beemerboff

With one shim you have zero compression and enough oil pressure to keep the light off , which is what I had when I bought my bike.

Makes me want to fit a oil pressure gauge now - have you posted somewhere how you did it and what bits you used.?

Another lesson learned is that operating temps (at least for the oil) is not reached even after riding 15 highway miles under the noonday sun. My oil pressure readings are still on the high side (read: the oil isn't hot enough for it to lose a lot of its viscosity). It takes many more miles to actually get the operating temp pressure numbers I stated earlier.

Parts list (for GSPD):

1. 5-bar (or 80 psi) VDO gauge (52 mm). I get more resolution on the lower gauge. The 100 psi gauge is OK too but getting a matching switch with the proper threads might be a challenge. The 150 psi gauge is alright only for seeing pressure with engine cold (way over 80 psi). But with engine hot, one will get maybe a 80 psi max reading. Bought new $2 off eBay

2. Matching VDO pressure switch (same psi rating and resistance as the chosen gauge). Get the dual-pole type so your idiot lamp still works as well. New off eBay $15 My set-up entailed a separate grounding for the switch. Note that the bulky VDO senders would not fit when directly installed vice the original BMW switch. There would be some interference with the shifter.

3. High pressure oil hose (length dependent on mounting location of switch) crimped with M12 x 1.5 coarse thread fitting engine-side, and same female fitting switch-side depending on switch's thread spec.

4. Bit of wiring for a switched connection to ignition ON position. Lighting tapped to light switch. Easy...

5. Generic gauge holder/cup, 52 mm.

Many of the above are available at e-gauges.com which will give you a good idea of what you need and pricing.

Crummy photos but hope these help:

You can see the oil hose/fitting coming off the engine side (under the head)



Oil gauge on the left. So many things to look at...



Cup and mount, bought separately



Oil line leads up through frame then underneath the middle spine



A good hose and sender mounting kit



Dual pole VDO sender, 80 psi

[opposedcyljunkie]

Originally Posted by Stagehand

Not that I know of. Just a big damn flat screwdriver. Its just threads.

how about an impact driver, but carefully-used?

[opposedcyljunkie]

Originally Posted by AliBaba

Your reply gives a really good overview on what happens when there is a leakage in the canister!

The oilpressure drops to 50% or worse. The pressure at idle and operating-temp is still a bit lower then mine, maybe you canister is not completely sealed…

I agree, and this is using 20W-50 oil which is supposedly the best for viscosity-retention. I am looking for 20W-50 oil which can hold its viscosity better when faced with high engine temps.

[Beemerboff]

OCJ , Thanks for the list and write up .

Went to the Oz VDO agents email shop , and the same gauge that is $23.95 in the US IS $88.00 !!!!. Senders the same.

Just going to have to wait until the right bits come up on Ebay.

I found a box of good Smiths gauges in my shed , probably from the 3 Triumphs I wrecked to keep my 2.5 PI running but no senders, and the only Smiths sender I can find for sale is $118.00 so that isnt looking good.

Maybe put all the old Smiths gauges on Ebay------- the are a huge price now. First I gota get a camera so I can include photos -----.

[jb]

Originally Posted by datchew

Done. If it's good to go, replace and install exactly like it came apart unless your new calipers tell you different.

Concur with Stage.

[opposedcyljunkie]

Originally Posted by Beemerboff

OCJ , Thanks for the list and write up .

Went to the Oz VDO agents email shop , and the same gauge that is $23.95 in the US IS $88.00 !!!!. Senders the same.

Just going to have to wait until the right bits come up on Ebay.

I found a box of good Smiths gauges in my shed , probably from the 3 Triumphs I wrecked to keep my 2.5 PI running but no senders, and the only Smiths sender I can find for sale is $118.00 so that isnt looking good.

Maybe put all the old Smiths gauges on Ebay------- the are a huge price now. First I gota get a camera so I can include photos -----.

eBay USA, my friend (they'll likely ship it to Oz for maybe $10-15):

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...sure&category0=

I didn't realize that Smiths gauges are worth a lot. I have a clean one from my Triumph. To eBay it goes

[jb]

Originally Posted by jb

So, do I replace the cover gasket or not? I am going to buy a caliper to measure the distance. If I do not replace the gasket, do I add another shim?

My depth measured 3.2mm. I decided to go with one shim and no paper gasket. I'll post an update when my engine explodes.

[opposedcyljunkie]

I'd go with 2 shims on yours...

[AntonLargiader]

Just to show that no one agrees, I'd go with none. :)

[caponerd]

Originally Posted by datchew

I pulled the cover again and this time measured the cannister correctly instead of the filter. (One of these days I'll get all this stuff straight.)

4.3 mm.



So, I put the 3 shims BACK in there and buttoned it up.
Had a moment's neurosis thinking that I ran it for a day with 3 and in doing so pushed the cannister, but, the o-rings at past filter changes have looked like new (unsquashed) so I'm not too worried.

Lesson learned: Proper way to measure the cannister depth gap.

Lesson cost: just under 3 quarts of oil that had run for approximately 8 miles.

I'm coming to this party pretty late...

I've never heard about all this shim stuff before. When I bought my R100 about 10 years ago, the only thing I heard was warnings of the dire consequences of installing the oil filter backwards. In fact, my bike had a replacement engine installed some years before I got it for that very reason.
Later, a friend had bought an R75/7 and ruined the engine after an oil change. The cause was found to be a stack of paper gaskets under the cover. Previous owners had never bothered to remove the old gaskets, just installing a new one on top of the old ones. I have no idea how anyone allowed that to happen!
I've never had a problem with mine, I just replace all the parts that come with the new filter, in the order in which I removed them. The only concern I have is getting it put together with the exhaust pipe in place, which I understand is why they went to the hinged in the middle filter. I gave up on that and just pull my exhaust system apart every time I change the filter. It seems too easy to lose track of the various parts in there when trying to slide the cover with oil cooler plumbing on it into place.

So, my question is; how is it possible to ruin an engine even if you do screw things up so badly that you've got no oil pressure? Wouldn't the oil pressure light indicate that you've got something wrong down there, and give you time to shut the engine off before a disaster occurs?
Or does this system somehow have nothing to do with the oil pressure that's measured by the oil pressure sending unit?
To be honest, I have a hard time believing that this "issue" is all that critical. How could a company with a reputation like BMW's design an oil filter system that's this fraught with risk? Really.

[jb]

Originally Posted by opposedcyljunkie

I'd go with 2 shims on yours...

Originally Posted by AntonLargiader

Just to show that no one agrees, I'd go with none. :)

Excellent! I've split the difference.


(This is still better than the R1200GS FD and ABS threads.)