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Old 04-28-2008, 09:23 AM   #46
mtndragon
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I have had two get offs in my Motorport mesh, both occurrences I was going about 45. Wayne repaired both, and the gear is as good as new. I believe the Motorport mesh is safer than my Stitch, but maybe that's just the cool-aid.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:50 PM   #47
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agree with elgreen

Elgreen has it nailed, just say no to Poly outer material.

Also just say no to Cotton against your skin! THAT IS WHERE POLYESTER WORKS WELL. WICKING MOISTURE FROM THE SKIN.

So here we go, Nylon outer, Poly against your skin for safe comfortable riding.
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Old 05-03-2008, 08:58 PM   #48
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Wait, are you saying to put some sort of material that has a high chance of melting into your skin, right next to your skin? I think you are joking, but either way, I was under the impression that cotton is better since it burns, but doesn't melt.
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Old 05-04-2008, 06:37 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsuredDisaster
Wait, are you saying to put some sort of material that has a high chance of melting into your skin, right next to your skin? I think you are joking, but either way, I was under the impression that cotton is better since it burns, but doesn't melt.


Many of the new high tech base layer materials from Patagonia, Mountain Hardware etc, are a poly blend. These wick sweat away faster, and dry faster than cotton. They can stink less, and are more durable. They are lighter, and pack down smaller. They keep you drier, and cause less discomfort over the long run than cotton.

So, he is serious.
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Old 05-04-2008, 03:45 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brtp4
I worked on motorcycle apparel for about 15 years. Also did some stuff with karting suits. Most of the CW floating out there is inaccurate, some of it is just plain wrong. But in fairness it is a complicated subject and can be viewed a lot of ways.

I would take days to discuss this to some reasonable summary. However, if there is one consistent factor that comes up in swatch testing, garment testing, and actual review of crashed garments, it is this: generally speaking multiple layers of fabric perform better than single layers, even in the single layer is a better quality fabric. For example, 2 layers of 500 denier cordura perform much better than 1 layer of 1000 D. In some cases 2 layers of 240 denier will outperform 1000D. The reasons are that crashes generate 3 forces: abrasion, heat, and burst force, when you have 2 layers you still hav ethe abrasion but you minimize the heat and the burst. In a practical situation (a crash, not a test) high burst force is generated initially (when you hit the ground) and dramatically tapers, with the exception of when you get off at speed and tumble.

Poly melts less easy than nylon, but neither resist heat enough. But those mesh fabric fibers....large, grippy, not smooth...they don't last. The exception is the Schoeller nylon/kevlar mix stuff that some companies use, that works pretty well, but it is STIFF. The regular nylon and poly mesh does not withstand crash forces that well.

BP
That is what I've found out through experience. Many years ago I rode for the Highway Patrol. We wore those wool riding pants (they still wear them for some reason) and I went down at about 40 MPH and slid on the pavement on my butt quite a ways. The pants were triple thick on the butt and they never wore through to my skin. In fact, the pants never wore through anywhere. The trooper boots did their job well, even the half helmet we wore back then worked well. Fortunately did not land on my face. Only rash was on my totally unprotected arms.
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Old 05-04-2008, 04:01 PM   #51
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Motoport

I'll have to check out Motoport stuff once I'm healed.

Sounds like several folks are more than pleased with it, as it will provide a balance between my full leather, super thick Bates custom built leather jacket which I love, versus being able to survive in the North Carolina humidity during summer.
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Old 05-04-2008, 05:15 PM   #52
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Thumb Just another Motoport fan.....

I am a believer for sure. I have sold the stitch and my Firstgear mesh ... and should have just done this to start. I have worn it for a year now and still lovin' it.
This might help.........
Save Your Hide

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Old 05-04-2008, 07:35 PM   #53
InsuredDisaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramps
Many of the new high tech base layer materials from Patagonia, Mountain Hardware etc, are a poly blend. These wick sweat away faster, and dry faster than cotton. They can stink less, and are more durable. They are lighter, and pack down smaller. They keep you drier, and cause less discomfort over the long run than cotton.

So, he is serious.

Yeah, ok, I was reading some book on the gear that fighterpilots use and I seem to recall reading that they all thought it was a bad idea to wear anything other than cotton or nomex (and maybe leather), as lots of synthetics could melt or (at least in there case, catch fire) and cause tremedous problems.

Not really trying to start a cotton vs synthetic underwear debate here, but am I correct in saying that theoreticallly, these poly synthetics would have a greater chance of melting into your skin than traditional cotton? So wearing cotton might at least keep the melted synthetics at ba.

Now I do see the coming point that, well, if we were that concerned with safety, then we'd all wear racing leathers and die of heat stroke. However, it has been my discovery, at least with the mesh pants from Oympia, that once moving in the dry southwest your cotton pants and anything else you are wearing dries really well, and in seconds. So for me, wearing cotton under the synthetic mesh seems a good idea just in case the mesh starts to melt down. Does anyone else think I'm somewhat correct, or just plain wrong?
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Old 05-04-2008, 07:41 PM   #54
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interesting thread, it gets VERY hot here. i wear the below jacket when its too hot for all leather. the sleeves are perforated leather and the jacket is very cool
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Old 05-04-2008, 08:20 PM   #55
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If you work around open flames or may be around open flames polyester is a bad idea. However, I think it is fine for a base layer in motorcycle gear. The important thing is to not let the outerlayer wear through.

Lets say that you are sliding down the road in Cordura outer layer, polyester inner layer. As long as the cordura stays in tact, there is little chance that the polyester will melt. The melting point of polyester is about 500 degrees F. Nylon melts at about 433 F (these are from quick google searches). So, if the outer Cordura layer doesn't melt (not hot enough), then there is no way the inner polyester layer can melt.

I think that the odds of the fabric staying together long enough for the frictional temperatures to reach the melting point are low. Look at all of the Aerostich faceplant that read "I got of at 80 mph and slide 10,000 feet and my stich had a few worn spots". Since the stich is made from Cordura, if it was easy to melt this stuff, we should see "melting stich" examples all the time.

I think that it is far more likely that polyester is getting a bad rap for melting. If the outer layer wears through, then your polyester base layer is not going to provide much protection. My guess is that it wears though pretty quickly and exposes skin to asphalt. The bits of abraded polyester (along with rocks, sand and dirt) get smashed into the wound. The real culprit it polyester wearing through. If your outer layer wears through and you have cotton as your baselayer, I think you are going to have cotton bits in your wound.

IMO, you can wear anything you want next to your skin. If you outer layer stays in tact, you will be fine. When you're not crashing, the polyester base layer will wick sweat and keep you comfortable. I don't think that polyester is a good outer layer because it does not appear to have good abrasion resistance.
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Old 05-04-2008, 08:24 PM   #56
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsuredDisaster
Yeah, ok, I was reading some book on the gear that fighterpilots use and I seem to recall reading that they all thought it was a bad idea to wear anything other than cotton or nomex (and maybe leather), as lots of synthetics could melt or (at least in there case, catch fire) and cause tremedous problems.

Not really trying to start a cotton vs synthetic underwear debate here, but am I correct in saying that theoreticallly, these poly synthetics would have a greater chance of melting into your skin than traditional cotton? So wearing cotton might at least keep the melted synthetics at ba.

Now I do see the coming point that, well, if we were that concerned with safety, then we'd all wear racing leathers and die of heat stroke. However, it has been my discovery, at least with the mesh pants from Oympia, that once moving in the dry southwest your cotton pants and anything else you are wearing dries really well, and in seconds. So for me, wearing cotton under the synthetic mesh seems a good idea just in case the mesh starts to melt down. Does anyone else think I'm somewhat correct, or just plain wrong?

I'm not sure the worry is that a base layer will melt. Up til now it's been the outer layer subject to the melting. I know aerostitch used to recommend wearing long sleeves and pants under their gear due to the possibility of burns from the heat generated by the friction of sliding.

But with the melting point of most poly blends being seemingly above 200 degrees, that leaves a lot of room for friction temps that wouldn't melt your base layers.

My opinion is that the real worry is from the outer layer melting, no the base layers.
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:36 AM   #57
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The "melting" issue with the polyester fibers is one thing, but what's equally, if not more important is the fiber's flammability potential.

In crashes, we're often exposed to leaked gas, exhaust pipes, etc., which can burn/melt the rider's clothing. In fact, I'm not so concerned with a fiber's ability to "melt" from sliding/road abrasion: the key is the flammability, or fire and temperature resistance of the fiber after a crash when I'm pinned under the bike/car with gasoline leaking on me, etc.

Yes, most "polyester" fibers will melt right into your skin if exposed to high temeratures, or under some abrasive conditions (e.g., sliding on asphalt). Cordura and other modern fabrics, however, have significantly higher burn/melt resistance.

It's not very comforting to know that the mesh in my Fieldsheer summer mesh jacket does little more than deflect bugs. The jacket's armor is pretty good, but the mesh would probably end up smashed into a wound in a getoff, or worse if it's not fire-resistant (Fieldsheer says it has a "fire resistant coating").

Clothing flammability ratings, etc., are available to potential buyers from the manufacturer. If a seller can't or won't provide it, buy from someone who will.

Read the literature before you buy, it's worth the effort.
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:13 AM   #58
AZKLR
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I hate anecdotal information but I'll give some anyway. I've seen two sport tour riders go down at pretty good speeds in mesh gear. Both walked away just fine and the mesh held up well. One was Joe Rocket, one was a Tourmaster.

As for the high tech fabrics, I bought a long sleeved undershirt by UnderArmour, designed for hot weather, and wore it underneath my mesh riding jacket. Went out for a test ride on a 105 degree day, not unusual here in AZ. In less than three miles, I thought I was going to have heat stroke. I went back home and changed to my cheapie cotton/poly blend long sleeve T under the mesh jacket and went out and rode for an hour, perfectly comfortable. Threw the UA in the trash.
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:31 AM   #59
Southernmost_Paul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ylexot
The Joe Rocket Phoenix 4.0 jacket has CE armor.
Yeah and you can buy a back CE protector from NewEnough for like $81. Nice!
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:37 AM   #60
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Ultimately, it's a matter of calculated risk.

At one end of the spectrum, we've got the guy in the doo-rag and shorts, with a wife-beater to complete the look.

On the other hand,. we've got Schuberth J. Aerostitch, who would wear a bell diving helmet with he could.

Somewhere in the middle are people who have to weigh the amount of risk they are willing to take.

I don't like to ride with nothing at all- but sometimes, it's just so hot and muggy that my regular jacket (textile) is too much- so I wear a Teknic mesh jacket. I might indeed look into a better setup- but frankly, this isn't an alternative to my regular coat- but an alternative to no coat at all.

I don't want to suffer melted material debridement- but then, I don't want to go down at all. Mesh in hot weather, IMO, does a good job of keeping me comfortable- and hopefully, therefore more alert.

I'll look into those other brands.
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