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Old 11-27-2014, 04:50 AM   #1
tangerine OP
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Hello Japan - we need new thumpers

I know there is the highrated KTM 690 Enduro R, but...

What about renewed modern lightweight "sexy" 21/18-spoke-wheeled XTs/TTs, DRs, XLs or KLRs with powerful but less fuel-consupmtion engines between 600 and 700 ccm (and smaller 450ccm-Versions)?

And why not thinking about new a BMW-Dakar?

And no heavy pigs (like the 660 Ténéré) please!
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Old 11-27-2014, 06:21 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangerine View Post
I know there is the highrated KTM 690 Enduro R, but...

What about renewed modern lightweight "sexy" 21/18-spoke-wheeled XTs/TTs, DRs, XLs or KLRs with powerful but less fuel-consupmtion engines between 600 and 700 ccm (and smaller 450ccm-Versions)?

And why not thinking about new a BMW-Dakar?
ext
And no heavy pigs (like the 660 Ténéré) please!
I was going to put the request in but you beat me to it except you forgot to request a color. Now all we have to do is wait till next year
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Old 11-27-2014, 08:09 AM   #3
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While I agree with your premise, this subject has been hashed over and over and over and over and..................
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Old 11-27-2014, 08:32 AM   #4
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Japan is awake now and there are bright spots, but dual sports are not one of them. Kawi has been busy building their supercharged H2 and Yamaha has a very sexy new R1 with an aluminum gas tank, available with a clear coat only finish. Sexy! No new dual sports though, same DRZ/DR/KLR. The WRR is the advanced bike in the bunch. I have been in the "gimme a new WRR in the 450 size" camp for awhile now, but I suspect it would cost as much as a KTM. If that is the case, you might as well get a KTM

The Japanese Yen is getting hammered though, that should drop or at least hold the line on the price of their products a little. I know lots of guys love their KTM 500s and I love them too, but let's get real. It is ridiculous to spend 10 grand on a dirt bike
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Old 11-27-2014, 08:41 AM   #5
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By the time Japan gets around to it $10Gs will be the norm.
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Old 11-27-2014, 08:43 AM   #6
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This one from a swedish inmate would be nice as ready to go from Yamaha

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=960362
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Old 11-27-2014, 08:57 AM   #7
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OK, I will bite the stinky bait.

Orange bikes already rule offroad, are cutting into MX, own the plated enduro market and are now selling premium adventure and naked bikes like Happy Meals. Now, since Japan, Inc. seems to like beginner/low cost bikes these days, KTM slaps them across the face with the RC390 coming this spring. So what's next?

Will Japan, Inc politely turn the other cheek yet again or finally fight back? There aren't many protected sand boxes left for them to play in. Not with Europeans squeezing from the top and Chinese from the bottom. At some point they need to crank out something fresh and exciting just keep people coming in the door.

How long can you count on baby boomer loyalty to sell pre-recession models? Or, in the case of some thumpers, pre Reagan era recession models. Am I drinking the orange Koolaid? Oh hell yes. But so are a lot of other riders these days.

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Old 11-27-2014, 09:38 AM   #8
gen
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How about the new 2015 WR450F? or the CCM adv bike?

I think the Japanese are not interested because the market is not big enough and KTM basically owns it. Look at all of the mfgrs rushing into the 1000cc "ADV" market with heavy pigs. That's where customers are buying bikes. Not even KTM is investing much in the 690 platform beyond adding ABS in 2014.
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Old 11-27-2014, 09:53 AM   #9
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Japanese ought to be ashamed!!

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1000013

Totally agree though.
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Old 11-27-2014, 11:17 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
OK, I will bite the stinky bait.

Orange bikes already rule offroad, are cutting into MX, own the plated enduro market and are now selling premium adventure and naked bikes like Happy Meals. Now, since Japan, Inc. seems to like beginner/low cost bikes these days, KTM slaps them across the face with the RC390 coming this spring. So what's next?

Will Japan, Inc politely turn the other cheek yet again or finally fight back? There aren't many protected sand boxes left for them to play in. Not with Europeans squeezing from the top and Chinese from the bottom. At some point they need to crank out something fresh and exciting just keep people coming in the door.

How long can you count on baby boomer loyalty to sell pre-recession models? Or, in the case of some thumpers, pre Reagan era recession models. Am I drinking the orange Koolaid? Oh hell yes. But so are a lot of other riders these days.


No they don't. Pick any race in the Lucas Oil AMA Pro races and see the actual field entry. They do NOT dominate. Seems no one really does. Nor does any one maker dominate the standings. Seems it depends on what bike the top riders are riding. Ricky Carmichael proved that riding Kawasaki, then Honda, then Yamaha. Others have done the same. Given a competitive ride, the best rider still wins. Next year Dungy is going Suzuki, if the bike is competitive he will still be at the top.

250 Motocross Championship Points 2014
1. Jeremy Martin, Yamaha 500
2. Blake Baggett, Kawasaki 421
3. Cooper Webb, Yamaha 418
4. Marvin Musquin, KTM 408
5. Justin Bogle, Honda 368
6. Christophe Pourcel, Yamaha 355
7. Jason Anderson, KTM 276
8. Cole Seely, Honda 260
9. Jessy Nelson, Honda 252
10. Dean Wilson, Kawasaki 230

450 Motocross Championship Points 2014
1. Ken Roczen, KTM 532
2. Ryan Dungey, KTM 518
3. Trey Canard, Honda 468
4. Brett Metcalfe, Kawasaki 334
5. Eli Tomac, Honda 319
6. Andrew Short, KTM 302
7. Weston Peick, Suzuki 290
8. Josh Grant, Yamaha 259
9. James Stewart, Suzuki 226
10. Fredrik Noren, Honda 207

Fact is I'm betting the Japanese bike representation in general in off roading is still quite strong, since most racers use MX bikes to do so. Good chance the low representation in the enduro racing in general is really due to the strength of KTM developed by Penton and leading directly into the 21st century along with the fact that the Japanese never did develop legitimate enduros until the 2000s, but pulling the market from the established KTM proved to be extremely difficult.

KTM should be as big as it is in off roading since that is their strength. They are just finally arriving to the party in MX. Ducati is the same in sport riding.
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Old 11-27-2014, 01:48 PM   #11
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I wasn't talking about who is winning AMA offroad racing series. Those are mostly factory guys and other SPONSORED riders. You know, the riders who don't BUY bikes.

I am talking about what people are actually buying to go riding (and racing) offroad. What I see starting anymore is obviously majority KTM with the rest a mix red, blue, yellow and green.

When was the last time you looked at the starting grid of an amateur enduro, hare scrambles or even an AMA dual sport ride? Because I see orange as the dominant brand these days.

But that wasn't my main point. My point was that KTM is already carving a chunk out of the adventure and naked segments of premium street bikes and next year will go to work on entry level street bikes.

So, again, how much longer can the Japanese refuse to refresh their line ups? KTM has already grabbed a huge share of offroad and dual sport and have now started working on street bikes.

How much market share are the Japanese willing to give up before investing in a little R&D? Aren't they supposed to be the big boys?
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Old 11-27-2014, 02:02 PM   #12
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There is rumored to be an XR450 in the works.

Kinda like Big Foot, only grainy photo's and second hand accounts exist.
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Old 11-27-2014, 03:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
OK, I will bite the stinky bait.

Orange bikes already rule offroad, are cutting into MX, own the plated enduro market and are now selling premium adventure and naked bikes like Happy Meals. Now, since Japan, Inc. seems to like beginner/low cost bikes these days, KTM slaps them across the face with the RC390 coming this spring. So what's next?

Will Japan, Inc politely turn the other cheek yet again or finally fight back? There aren't many protected sand boxes left for them to play in. Not with Europeans squeezing from the top and Chinese from the bottom. At some point they need to crank out something fresh and exciting just keep people coming in the door.

How long can you count on baby boomer loyalty to sell pre-recession models? Or, in the case of some thumpers, pre Reagan era recession models. Am I drinking the orange Koolaid? Oh hell yes. But so are a lot of other riders these days.

I think that Honda became a different company after the Old Man died. Too bad.
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Old 11-27-2014, 03:33 PM   #14
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400-500cc bike with decent suspension and 40hp & weighs a real world 350 pounds ready to ride (with fuel for 200 miles). it has a 6 speed and will noodle around at walking speed on the trails, yet hold a real world 65mph all day & not be maxed out. the CCM bike looks like it is mostly there.... heck, the DRZ isn't that far off either

so Japan.... where is it? I have money. I'll buy one.

ya, the liter size ADV bikes are a big seller, and people buy these bikes thinking the are the one that fits all... then they find out they can't ride like Hackey (won the Motoman). they are great bikes, but not cheap, and you have to get real about what they will do. I never did like my GS too far off road... a great tourer & best gravel road bike ever, but not an off roader. it is a bitch to pick it up when it has any kind of a load on it. at any rate... I already have that one..... I want smaller & lighter. and I suspect that as we (the guys with too much money, etc) get older.... this catagory bike will be growing exponentially
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Old 11-27-2014, 03:40 PM   #15
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Groovy, another "we want new Japanese thumpers" thread.


Already showing the tell tail signs of becoming another Euro bike bashing forum where Mark53 wades in (forgetting what thread he's in) to defend the honour of Asian bikes.... always entertaining though
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