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Old 06-27-2008, 10:10 PM   #1
TaZ9 OP
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Where's the proof? DR650 Idler Gear Problem

Like most of you, I always do lots of research on the bikes I consider buying. I recently bought a pristine 1999 DR650 with less 5000 miles and it sounds and runs great.

I have read the few stories out there about the starters solid idler gear (on the 1998 and early '99 models) failing and causing major damage to the engine case.

I know several people who have had these year models and no such problems have occured that I am aware of.

I see that Keintech.com sells a torque limiter that (for $164.00 plus shipping) will make this potential problem go away.

Now comes the question...how many of you have personally had this happen to YOUR DR650? Or you have actually witnessed it happen to someone elses DR650.

Please, none of the usual "It never happened to me, but I once read..." or "Someone I used to know, had a friend that knew a guy that it happened to".

Like I said, let's not muddy the waters with BS. Just real first hand knowledge, so we can see how prevelant the problem really is.

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Old 06-27-2008, 10:18 PM   #2
holycaveman
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I have done one, in my repair shop.

no major damage though. Had to split the cases, but no biggi.


I didn't read your post fully, on this 2000 dr650, the counter balancer gear broke a tooth and we had to replace the balancer, sorry, not the starter gear.
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:29 PM   #3
TaZ9 OP
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Updated info of the '98-'99 DR650 idler gear problem

So far no reponses from anyone that has actually had their DR650 case "grenade" due to a faulty solid idler gear.

My question now is how many of you are have owned or currently own a 1998-1999 DR650 and how many miles did you put your DR where the idler gear was NOT replaced?

I know some have replaced the questionable part with the torque limiter, but I am trying to see if their are any high milage '98-'99 DR's that have survived this potential problem without doing the replacement.

Any '98-'99 oners out there with input?
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Old 06-29-2008, 06:53 PM   #4
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My 99 DR has not been upgraded but its close in serial number to the crossover point. I did have a failure for the base gasket as that is a more common problem with this model year.

And back to your original question...I did meet a fellow DR650 rider who had one blow up. He is an ADV rider inmate so maybe he will post. I met him at the Ephrata PA First Sunday gathering where he was sporting his new DR650.

I may pull mine apart and see if it needs the upgrade but so far in 4 years and 8K tough miles it has held up.

Terry
99 DR650
02 DL1000
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Old 06-29-2008, 07:04 PM   #5
TaZ9 OP
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Finally! Well maybe...

Hey, hope your friend will reply and tell us if it was actually the dreaded starter idler gear that caused the "destuction"?

I'm sure there is something to the problem, but so far, no definitive proof?

Photos and circumstances of the damage would be appreciated.

From my extensive research, many of the base gasket problems occur on the cam chain side of the motor. The base gasket is only about 1/4" wide at the front and back of the right side (sitting on bike). This is the area of the gasket that surrounds the cam chain. Most that I am finding is at the back, just below the cam chain tensioner. There are two small bolts on the right side of the head that are sometimes not torqued.

My '99 was leaking in this area, so I torqued the small bolts, cleaned the engine with deagreaser. roughed of the area just behind the starter where the head and case mate, applied some JB Weld, and no leaks after a 70 mile highway run. I did let the JB Weld sit overnight.

My '99 has 5,000 miles and no other problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by not2fast
My 99 DR has not been upgraded but its close in serial number to the crossover point. I did have a failure for the base gasket as that is a more common problem with this model year.

And back to your original question...I did meet a fellow DR650 rider who had one blow up. He is an ADV rider inmate so maybe he will post. I met him at the Ephrata PA First Sunday gathering where he was sporting his new DR650.

I may pull mine apart and see if it needs the upgrade but so far in 4 years and 8K tough miles it has held up.

Terry
99 DR650
02 DL1000
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:26 PM   #6
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I'm convinced and made the upgrade...

I can be a little stubborn at times. I was lucky to have a dad that taught me from a very early age how to work on and maintain most things mechanical, including my cars and motorcycles.

When I hear of a "common" problem with a particular motorcycle that I am considering, I do a lot of research and often find the problems tend to be a bit overstated. This is not one of those situations.

I am now convinced that the idler gear failure with some of the 1999-1999 Dr650 models is common enough to warrant making the upgrade.

Thanks to Jesse at Kietech.com for his patient and knowledgeable explaination of the problem. I ordered the upgrade from him at the same time.

Once I pulled the side cover on my 1999 DR650 it was apparent that it was a neccesary and simple fix.

By the way, the DR400e that I own comes standard with the updated
torque limiter that I am going to install in the DR650.

I'm sure some of the questionable DR engines go forever without the upgrade. My type of riding takes me into many places that I am not willing to take the chance.

Problem solved!
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Old 07-03-2008, 06:16 PM   #7
rivercreep
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I've seen the "proof" in pictures......and

I do remember that some pictures (either here or on thumpertalk) were posted showing the damage caused by this ocassional failure.
I think all the PROOF I really needed is the fact that Suzuki switched back to the old style with the "torque limiting" design that has more parts and is slightly more expensive to produce. I mean....how often does a manufacturer do that UNLESS there's a problem.
F.W.I.W. I've owned 2 of that model (a 91 and a 97) and each ran strong up to about 50,000 miles before the top end (valves and timeing) started getting funny. I wouldn't have traded the 91 in on the 97 model if the model had ever given me any problems......really bullet proof engines/trannies with just a few exceptions over the years.
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Old 07-03-2008, 06:35 PM   #8
braindead0
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I believe the DR650 wiki mentions 1 or 2 confirmed cases.... That doesn't seem like a common failure. Luckily I think we're outta the woods on that with the '06 so I didn't investigate further.
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:10 PM   #9
WR_guy
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I sold a complete motor to Dave Sullivan who had his 99 motor grenade.

It does happen.
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:00 PM   #10
VtStom
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A long dead thread........Revived today.....sigh

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaZ9
So far no reponses from anyone that has actually had their DR650 case "grenade" due to a faulty solid idler gear.

My question now is how many of you are have owned or currently own a 1998-1999 DR650 and how many miles did you put your DR where the idler gear was NOT replaced?

I know some have replaced the questionable part with the torque limiter, but I am trying to see if their are any high milage '98-'99 DR's that have survived this potential problem without doing the replacement.

Any '98-'99 oners out there with input?
Yup Mine!!! 1998 DR-650 grenaded the Starter Idler gear shaft mounting Boss on the L.H. Engine side case 3 weeks ago and it was from a cobbled up repair done by the Original owner to get the bike running well enough to trade... That was 4 owners and 1900 miles ago...as best as I can figure..
It started with me hearing a Metalic sound and thought My valves were out of Spec ...So, I re checked and adjusted the valves after replacing the Blown Base Gasket and The Cam Chain tensioner and Cyl. head Gaskets.. then the noise was getting louder So I was thinking it was A NSU screw came loose and was going to strip the clutch cover off ...I ordered the Gasket and On the way yo pick up the Gasket and the Wheel Bearings for My Dl1000 the Countershaft Seal shit out of the case .....Got the Seal and Installed it .( didnt get it exactly right , some debris left and the seal was weeping .) On the way to the Independent shop I use to pick up an Oil Filter and a cupple Qts of oil the Bike started dumping Hot Oil all over the left side of the Motor, rear tire and My Boot... Coasted to a stop had a friend bring the truck and then brought the DR- to the Shop.
They called me and explained that the problem was Not the Seal after all ( well a little leakage from it ) But that the Magneto cover had a small hole in it and it appeared to have been made from the Inside out . I went over last thursday and saw the damage myself ,regrettably with out a camera ...I will be going to get the bike in a few weeks and I will document the damage it did... and Pictures will be posted for all to see......
I sent a question to Jesse at Keintech today Yes, on a Saturday,,here is the ? and the answer

Hi Jesse, My name is Jack D. and I purchased a 1998 DR-650 .with an engine that was damaged due to the Starter Idler gear problem. it was Cobblrded up..
this was apparently done by one of the two original owners.{Who traded the bike with out revealing this fact] It was repaired with a piece of Aluminum and epoxied in place it held foe a few hundred miles.
The Repair failed and I was wondering if you could enlighten me on the amount of Lateral force the torque limiter and the shaft see when the starter is engaged and if I understand correctly when the Motor is shut down. If the stress is reduced with this type of gear (which I would then Purchase) I believe I Can repair my engine case ..any help would be appreciated..thank you , Jack

, On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Jesse Kientz wrote:
Hi Jack, sorry to hear that you got one this way. But to answer your question the torque limiter does just that. the gear is made up of a series of thin gears sandwiched between a series of spring washers which allows it to slip when extra torque is delivered to the gear when the engine kicks backwards on shutdown. So if you make repairs to the little axle bosses in the case it would apply much less force to this area with the new torque limiter in place. I feel welding would be one method but some industrial epoxies are another option. I saw one in a bearing supply house the other day that was about 50. some $ that was for shaft build up on a final drive shaft for a D8 cat. Hope this gives you some possible solutions other than $$$ new cases.
Jesse

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VtStom screwed with this post 07-11-2010 at 01:59 PM Reason: added text and response
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:01 AM   #11
VtStom
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Laugh A possible solution....

As I stated My damage was only to the Idler Gear shaft boss on the L.H. Engine center case .. I have done some Research and found 2 Promising Epoxy/Metal Paste products to use.. this one:
http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catalog.do?e=10&s=1810452&r=0&type=a&mp=10780

and this one:
http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce...ype=a&mp=10110
as I said 2 similar products. But, I really need to know what the average operational temp of the lower Engine cases are .....Anyone want to run their Bike up to temperature and Shoot a Non contact Laser thermometer at it for me ????
I would appreciate it, A Lot!
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VtStom screwed with this post 07-11-2010 at 11:31 AM
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Old 07-12-2010, 04:06 PM   #12
VtStom
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Eh? I submit Photo's

As I said earlier, I would take photo's of the Damage.....

Above: the Cobbled up "retainer " that was Epoxied on to the Unprepped Case..and broke into 2 parts . the Nugget at the bottom is the shrappnel that holed the Magneto cover ..the crescent Is the piece of the Shaft Boss on L.H.case that was epoxied to the case and the Retainer




I'll be picking the bike up on Thursday.. to make the preperations for the repair and
I'm calling Jesse after this loads to order the" Torque limiter kit "

UP-Date: Kit ordered should arrive friday.... Now waiting on the Epoxy/Metal Paste repair kit ....
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:26 AM   #13
VtStom
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Cool2 Thursday update

But posted Friday
Well today I received the Torque Limiter kit from Jesse & it arrived 1 day earlier than I was told to expect it.. If You have never dealt with them, They are great people to do business with.. very helpful and great customer service...
I also went and retrieved the DR from Procycle in North Clarendon and brought the bike home where I will make the repairs Starting Sunday evening..
I will try to document the process and keep a photo log of each step If I can remember to get batteries for the Camera..
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:10 PM   #14
VtStom
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Eek Start of the repairs...

Well, I purchased and collected all the Material I think I need to get this done
so today removed the Tank, Side Covers and the seat and Cleaned off the excessive amount of oil from the Case leak.. I then began to remove the Magneto cover [ which has a hole in it from the Cashew shaped nugget of alum.] and then A huge BOOM, A Flash of Lightning !!! ..... and I was done for the day so more reading of the directions in the Service Manual and then the Repair Putty instructions....
And I'll see if the weather is more co-operative 2morro...
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:33 PM   #15
VtStom
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Wink Updated the photos

Quote:
Originally Posted by VtStom
As I said earlier, I would take photo's of the Damage.....

Above: the Cobbled up "retainer " that was Epoxied on to the Unprepped Case..and broke into 2 parts . the Nugget at the bottom is the shrappnel that holed the Magneto cover ..the crescent Is the piece of the Shaft Boss on L.H.case that was epoxied to the case and the Retainer




I'll be picking the bike up on Thursday.. to make the preperations for the repair and
I'm calling Jesse after this loads to order the" Torque limiter kit "

UP-Date: Kit ordered should arrive friday.... Now waiting on the Epoxy/Metal Paste repair kit ....
Wel here are the Same area's after cleaning and degreasing, and roughing the surface with a smooth Dbl. cut Carbide Burr:
1]
as you can see the area has been cleaned and decreased

2]
the Brown discoloration is from the 2 part 5 min. Epoxy wil be going after that with a Dremel & carbide burr 2moro

3]
cleaned up most everything today and even got the compressor out and blew out the remaining debris and sprayed it with Brake Cleaner. Hopefully Thurs. after work, I can get the pieces epoxied in and the Magneto cover in place to help everything line up while setting up
4] orange spot is an EAR Plug used to kep debris out of Transmission case.
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