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Old 09-13-2014, 06:55 PM   #1
abrahamalincoln OP
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SOLVED! - Ktm 400 exc, I need help!

3 stators, 4 carb cleanings and many wires wired, yet it will not run. Why is the question.

Note: if you don't like a story with a ton of details, Junp to the bottom for the summary.

My story starts not long after I purchased this heap, which was about three weeks ago. I got it for a good price and I knew it needed some love. The main thing is it wouldn't idle. I've been here before. No problem.... I was wrong.

As I'm riding it to work the first time, about 3 miles into my ride I noticed I forgot to turn the lights on. I flip the switch and the bike bogs down and dies. It starts right back up but as I give it gas it revs and then promptly falls. Weird. I'll let it sit for ten minutes and see what happens. The same thing. I need to get to work so I hobble about a mile to get there, feathering the clutch as the bike heaves it's way. Revs up and down in about 1 second intervals.

After I work I take a Car2Go home and grab some tools. Something must be amiss in the carb. The bowl is sticking! I pull the bottom off the carb, fiddle with the float. All seems in order. Put everything back together and the bike runs great. I drive about 10 blocks and realized I forgot to turn the light on again. You know where this going, yes, the bike bogs down and does again. I stop to play with the carb again all the while sweating my ass off and thinking, can this just be a random coincidence? The tool I need to pull the float had fallen out of my bag. So angry now. I get the bike home, because what else am I going to do, while people point and gesture at the idiot riding a bucking bronco of a dirt bike.

Maybe it's not getting enough power from the stator. I had previously noted that the brand new battery I put in wasn't charging. I decide to test the stator. It fails. Success! I have found you demon problem! I order a new3 phase stator from Electrosport, I wanted the Trail Tech but they were out of stock for two weeks, I'm running out of riding season, I need now!

The new stator arrives and it is a very different install. I have to hack apart my wiring harness which by the way looked like a monkey on acid had done. I get it installed and back together but when I started my bike this time I got something new. The bike would idle, very lumpy but idle, ute when I would give it gas it would bog down and die. I couldn't get it to stay running like before where it would bog but rev up the die. Now it's apply throttle, bog, die.

I run a bevy of test and discuss them with Kyle at Electrsport who is very helpful. He thinks they sent me a bad stator based on the the voltage measured on the red/black red/white wires coming out of the stator going to the CDI. I was getting around 6acv compared to the suggested 20acv.

While awaiting the stator I take the carb out again and clean it again. I had cleaned it a couple weeks before when I purchased the bike. I checked the float bowl height and float needle. Everything looks good. I also tested the coil and everything was in spec.

The new stator arrives and I promptly throw it in. I get the same results. More discussions with Kyle at Electrport. Did I bump the pickup coil, are the valves to tight, etc. I check the CDI wires to see if I reversed the polarity. No spark when reversed. I also checked the red/black red/white wires coming out of the stator going to the CDI and I was getting a peak of 9acv, still way less than the 20acv he originally suggested. I pull the carb again because man, it sounds like the damn carb! I fully disassemble it, throw it in the ultrasonic cleaner (Harbor Freight is good for somethings!) I check all the jets, all free and clear.

I forgot to mention, when I pulled the old stator out I realized what was wrong with it. All the wires had become brittle and we'e occasionally hitting each other. So I decide to rewire the stator, which by the way is a single phase Trail Tech.

Now I've run into an issue. As I mentioned earlier, my wiring is a nightmare and to be honest, I have no idea what the hell is going on in there now that I out the Electrosport in. If you're not familiar, the Electrosport wiring is very simple, the regulator has a positive lead to the battery, three yellow wires that go to the stator and a wire that grounds onto the regulator to the battery. The stator has the three yellow wires to the regulator/rectifier and the red/black red/white wires going to the CDI. So it bypasses most of my wiring harness.

After hours of trying to figure out how to get the old regulator/rectifier back into the wiring harness, I get the main wires wired and give it a shot. THE SAME THING!!! Man, I might flip out here. I've missed something I say to myself.

Finally I decided to rewire it like the Electrosport based on a tip by John Davie on Spokanister. The two yellows out of the regulator/rectifier to the ones one the stator, the black to the negative terminal on the battery and the red to the positive. The remaining red and white wires to the red/black red/white wires out of the stator to the same out of the CDI. Now it won't even turn over. I get a carb sucking backfire everyone and a while but no combustion. I check the spark, which by the way looks better than ever. I also check the CDI wires to see if I reversed the polarity. No spark reversed like my previous test.

In summary I have replaced three stators chasing a bike that bogs down and dies, seemingly when I turn the lights on. I've cleaned the carbs multiple times to try and see it that was my problem. I have a wiring nightmare on my hands and I have made no improvement to anything. If anything I've made it worse!

What the hell is going on. The only thing I haven't checked is the valves but I can honestly say how the hell could that be the problem if you go back o my initial problem. I mean the bike ran fine, well, except for the bogging and running like crap part. I'm truly at a loss here. As you can see, I decided to write a short story about it!

One thing I forgot, at one point when I cleaned the carb, while waiting for the first stator, I inadvertently I stalled the TPS backwards. I rectified the problem promptly.

All I want to so is ride this damn thing before the weather gets cold and in Minnesota, that happens soon! I'll try just about anything including black magic. Please help.

abrahamalincoln screwed with this post 09-26-2014 at 06:25 PM Reason: Solved
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:11 PM   #2
Adanac rider
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Did you happen to check for a cracked spark plug cap?
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:26 PM   #3
abrahamalincoln OP
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Did you happen to check for a cracked spark plug cap?
Yeah, it looks good. Also, replaced the spark plug. Twice. Thanks.
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Old 09-14-2014, 04:04 AM   #4
dentvet
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What year? What test did the original stator fail? What's so bad about the wiring Job, is it a full dualsport add on kit with blinkers etc? Aftermarket regulator?

One thing comes to mind in a generic sense. Some headlight circuits run on a/c and some cdi run on a/c



Look for a thread called stators demystified

It sounds electrical to me but time spent cleaning any carb or adjusting valves is never wasted. There are many instances where people claim to have cleaned the carb or that it looks good. You have to actually ascertain that fuel or air can actually flow through each circuit
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Old 09-14-2014, 05:37 AM   #5
jackanory
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Had the same thing happen to me once. Turned out to be the ground wire.

I've also heard that a mechanical shock can weaken the flywheel magnets. So if the PO dropped the flywheel on a cement floor while working on the bike...
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Old 09-14-2014, 06:11 AM   #6
abrahamalincoln OP
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Originally Posted by dentvet View Post
What year? What test did the original stator fail? What's so bad about the wiring Job, is it a full dualsport add on kit with blinkers etc? Aftermarket regulator?

One thing comes to mind in a generic sense. Some headlight circuits run on a/c and some cdi run on a/c



Look for a thread called stators demystified

It sounds electrical to me but time spent cleaning any carb or adjusting valves is never wasted. There are many instances where people claim to have cleaned the carb or that it looks good. You have to actually ascertain that fuel or air can actually flow through each circuit
It's a 2002. I actually probably should have titled it 450 sx/mxc/exc. When I decode the VIN, it says it's an MXC but the original owner who I've chatted with stated it was a SX. Either way, it's been converted into an EXC 450. EXC gears, Trail Tech stator, flywheel and regulator/rectifier. The original stator was grounding out, because of the wires touching each other.

As to what's bad about the wiring job, none of the wires are color coded like the stock wiring diagrams for any aftermarket diagrams. Plus, their are loops that go no where, wire spliced into other wires, etc. It's a true hell for a guy like me. Yes, it has blinkers etc.

I've looked at the thread on stators demystified, that's how I ended up on Spokanister (http://www.spokanister.net/ktm_stator.htm). I'll go back again.

At this point, the only conclusion I can come up with is to get a stock EXC wiring harness and rewire everything or and aftermarket one. That way I know what every wire is doing and where it's going.

I'll check on the headlight circuits run on a/c and some cdi run on a/c. Thanks!
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Old 09-14-2014, 06:14 AM   #7
abrahamalincoln OP
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Originally Posted by jackanory View Post
Had the same thing happen to me once. Turned out to be the ground wire.

I've also heard that a mechanical shock can weaken the flywheel magnets. So if the PO dropped the flywheel on a cement floor while working on the bike...
Yeah, I've made sure everything is grounded properly but hey, I'll check again! As for the stator being dropped, i hope that's not true for my two new stators. I've inspected them in detail and saw nothing that would indicate that. Thanks.
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Old 09-14-2014, 06:37 AM   #8
matty86suk
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Sounds like an intermitted/partial ground or open circuit. You need to test each length of wire individually. Test for conductivity and resistance. Good luck
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Old 09-14-2014, 06:52 AM   #9
RideFreak
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I know you don't want to hear this but ES stators are junk, they were junk on the Honda XRs and didn't get any better with their KTM offerings. Not that I think this is the issue but it definitely sounds electrical. Your lights are robbing your ign system of juice or else a circuit that's being activated when you turn on the lights is providing an alternate path for some of the current from the ign circuit. Trail Tech is the only stator I'd replace a OE KTM stator with, they have the system figured out very well and in fact KTM sells TT stators as upgrades in their hardparts catalog.

I'd suggest isolating the lighting circuit (disconnect all it's grounds) then with the bike idling and lights on selectively start reconnecting the lighting circuit and see when it starts cutting out. If it were me I'd pull that stator right off the bat because it's going to need replaced eventually. Don't take my word for it.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359283

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=19
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Old 09-14-2014, 07:11 AM   #10
abrahamalincoln OP
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Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
I know you don't want to hear this but ES stators are junk, they were junk on the Honda XRs and didn't get any better with their KTM offerings. Not that I think this is the issue but it definitely sounds electrical. Your lights are robbing your ign system of juice or else a circuit that's being activated when you turn on the lights is providing an alternate path for some of the current from the ign circuit. Trail Tech is the only stator I'd replace a OE KTM stator with, they have the system figured out very well and in fact KTM sells TT stators as upgrades in their hardparts catalog.

I'd suggest isolating the lighting circuit (disconnect all it's grounds) then with the bike idling and lights on selectively start reconnecting the lighting circuit and see when it starts cutting out. If it were me I'd pull that stator right off the bat because it's going to need replaced eventually. Don't take my word for it.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359283

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=19
Yeah, I read all the horror stories about the Electrosport stators after I purchased it. It is pulled out now. I rewired the Trail Tech and put it back in.

The problem I have now is I can't get the bike above idle with the lights off. The lights are on their own switch so when I describe all the stator replacings and whatnot, that's with the lights off. I'm missing something in the wiring when trying to wire the original Trail Tech back into the harness. Thanks.
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Old 09-14-2014, 08:59 AM   #11
jackanory
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Originally Posted by abrahamalincoln View Post
Yeah, I've made sure everything is grounded properly but hey, I'll check again! As for the stator being dropped, i hope that's not true for my two new stators. I've inspected them in detail and saw nothing that would indicate that. Thanks.
Not the stator, the flywheel. The magnets can lose some magnetism(?) with a sharp mechanical shock, or so I've heard. Kind of unlikely but the lack of voltage right at the stator kinda makes you wonder.

Electrosport isn't quality stuff. English electrics are always suspect... ask any vintage triumph owner.
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Old 09-14-2014, 03:17 PM   #12
Twoung
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Carb cleaning?

When you cleaned your carb did you make sure the AP was working properly?
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Old 09-14-2014, 03:30 PM   #13
abrahamalincoln OP
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When you cleaned your carb did you make sure the AP was working properly?
Yes I did. That's actually why I took it apart the third time. I new it was working but I couldn't remember if it was spraying enough fuel. All looks good. Thanks.
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Old 09-25-2014, 08:07 PM   #14
abrahamalincoln OP
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Thumb

Just thought I'd update this thread for anyone that has the same symptoms.

The problem ended up being the CDI. I think what happened was on the original stator (original to me, it was a Trail Tech) the insulation had come off of all the wires. I think the wires not only fried the stator but the CDI as well. I could be wring and it's just a coincidence that the CDI went out at the same time as the stator.

Now I have a bike that's been completely rewired, new stator and reg/rec from Trail Tech, the cleanest carb this side of the Mason-Dixon Line plus a rebuild kit and a new/used CDI. The bike runs great!
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Old 09-26-2014, 08:16 PM   #15
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Glad you got that figured out. Now get out there and ride!
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