Electrical problem - help please ?

[Gravel Seeker]

yeah....hi......ehh.......I have like a question...?

My cousins Lars (R11GS, R80GS) and Morten (R11R), both have replaced the orange blinker glasses with white/clear ones on their bikes and I decided to do the same on my 97 F650ST becuase it looks really good.

Aprilia stocks the glasses/lences (whatever it's called in english) and they were only $7 a piece including tax. I went to an auto parts store and picked up the bulbs needed. Regular bulbs would make my blinkers flash yellow which is not legal. Orange bulbs are ugly and defeats the purpose of clear glasses as they would look orange. Osram makes a bulb called "Diadem" which is clear with a hint of blue and orange, but basically clear and they flash bright orange. They come in packs of two and cost, get this, $29 a pack....I needed 4 bulbs - $58.

Came home and replaced the old bulbs. WTF ? Is the relay singing on the last verse ?.....Shit, stock is set up with 10W bulbs and relay. The Diadem bulbs are 21W.

Found a 2-pin, 2x21W relay made by Tridon, $21.

Installed everything, works like a charm - with the engine off that is....when the engine is running it flashes WAY to fast and not very regular. It seems the speed of the flashing increases with the RPMs. What I discovered though, is that when I apply the brakes - the flashing speed is PERFECT.....

Only thing I can think of is that the brakelight "steal" some power and the flasher relay get a little less W, which in turn lowers the speed of the flashes...

So $107 later I have flashers that's not working properly:mad:
How do I cure this ????

#s
Aprilia glasses: SR50
Osram Diadem bulbs: PY21W - BAU15s
Flasher relay: Tridon EP-20

[Gravel Seeker]

C'mon !
No one knows ?
I find that somewhat hard to believe !

[Gravel Seeker]

No one ?!
Damn

[fish]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Aridriel [/i
So $107 later I have flashers that's not working properly:mad:
How do I cure this ????

You probably don't want to hear this solution, but how about returning it to the stock config, or clear lenses with orange bulbs?

[Gravel Seeker]

Guess what ....
You're right - I didn't wanna hear that !!

[freaking RT]

where's Knappy when ya need him?

[Gonz]

The flashers will work fine with the 12 volt from the batt only. With that type of current draw those bulbs might not be at their full intensity. With the motor running and alternator holding the batt. @ 13.8 volts, then the bulbs can draw more power, the poor old blinker can is saying shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit and switches from one state to another until it destroys itself. It sounds like the blinker can isnt up to the current draw, get a higher amperage. Also a thing to look at you might be drawing too much current through your indicator switch and you may melt/damage same.
You need to really get lower wattage bulbs. OR use a relay to protect the indicator switch and use something like a current limiting resistor on the supply side of the blinker can. It will be butt ugly, a high wattage AND way too much trouble.
Sorry old fella..................
GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL BLINKER ASSEMBLY

[Rod]

Originally posted by Gonz
The flashers will work fine with the 12 volt from the batt only. With that type of current draw those bulbs might not be at their full intensity. With the motor running and alternator holding the batt. @ 13.8 volts, then the bulbs can draw more power, the poor old blinker can is saying shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit and switches from one state to another until it destroys itself. It sounds like the blinker can isnt up to the current draw, get a higher amperage. Also a thing to look at you might be drawing too much current through your indicator switch and you may melt/damage same.
You need to really get lower wattage bulbs. OR use a relay to protect the indicator switch and use something like a current limiting resistor on the supply side of the blinker can. It will be butt ugly, a high wattage AND way too much trouble.
Sorry old fella..................
GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL BLINKER ASSEMBLY

G'day Gonz welcome to the ayslum,.. Mate good to see more Ozies on Advrider legs is the word spread the word

[Gravel Seeker]

Originally posted by Gonz
The flashers will work fine with the 12 volt from the batt only. With that type of current draw those bulbs might not be at their full intensity. With the motor running and alternator holding the batt. @ 13.8 volts, then the bulbs can draw more power, the poor old blinker can is saying shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit and switches from one state to another until it destroys itself. It sounds like the blinker can isnt up to the current draw, get a higher amperage. Also a thing to look at you might be drawing too much current through your indicator switch and you may melt/damage same.
You need to really get lower wattage bulbs. OR use a relay to protect the indicator switch and use something like a current limiting resistor on the supply side of the blinker can. It will be butt ugly, a high wattage AND way too much trouble.
Sorry old fella..................
GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL BLINKER ASSEMBLY

Thanks for replying :):
"The blinker can"...Is that the realy ?
As you can't get any lower wattage bulbs of this kind I'm stuck with the 21W. How come a 12V battery with a car relay and car bulbs won't work ? It's the same setup, isn't it ?

[Gonz]

A relay is used to switch a separate high current, using a lower current. The lower current or circuit energises a small electromagnet which pulls in a larger set of contacts for the high current. This way you can use a light duty switch to activate high current loads. High current switches are naturally heavier and bigger (sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs, you're probably an electronics engineer!!!!)
Your bliner can is basically a light bi-metal strip or similar and when energised distorts to make contact between two points, ie flash flash goes the blinker.
About the car, perhaps the bulbs are lower wattage (not sure), just that 21 watts per globe is way high, I thnk would draw nearly 2amps per globe, thats nearly 4amps when both flash. Combine that with your headlamp and tail lamp, I would think the exciter for the alternator is telling the alternator to put up to full charge into the battery.
Though having said that, I had an RMX250 which used solid state to activate the blinkers (talk about over engineering), anways that failed, so I used the trusty blinker can, and it worked

Im not an expert, just play with this stuff a bit.

HEY ROD HOWZIT GOING MATE!! MUST GET SOME DETAILS FOR SOME EMAILS, WE MIGHT BE NEIGHBOURS

[Frank Warner]

Normal blinker blubs are 21 watts - for cars and most road going motorcycles. "Off road" motorcycles (XRs etc) use 10 watts...

BMW use 21 watts on the R and K models, thinks they would use the same on the F!

Blinker cans are not relays... very different functions.

[Gravel Seeker]

Originally posted by Frank Warner
Normal blinker blubs are 21 watts - for cars and most road going motorcycles. "Off road" motorcycles (XRs etc) use 10 watts...

BMW use 21 watts on the R and K models, thinks they would use the same on the F!

Blinker cans are not relays... very different functions.

The R1100GS uses the exact same turnsignal as the classic F on the rear. It even says "10W" on the reflector which holds a 21W bulb.

How does installing a resistor/resistance device before the relay sound?
The relay is fully electronic and it says on it that it has "bulb failure indication".

The relay is designed for 4x21W main flashers or 6 side lights (on vans and larger vehicles I assume).

[Gravel Seeker]

Originally posted by Gonz
sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs, you're probably an electronics engineer!!!!

Nope

[Gonz]

"The relay is fully electronic and it says on it that it has "bulb failure indication". "

Thats a new one, how did you get this information. Did it show up with the BMW diagnostic computer.

Hey guys, only trying to solve the riddle. It might be total B.S. But in light of the lack of other replies, I thought it might help. The book says the blinkers are 10w each, however.

Put your original bulbs in, make sure it all works still. (Make sure the electronic flasher is working still). Then you might try some standard 21w globes (havent heard of the ones you are using) this should be cheap, and see if you can replicate the problem you are having with your new, you beaut globes.

It it still persists, I can only put it down to the higher current draw.



I dunno what the wattage is on car etc, Frank. Take that on advisement. The F BMW manual says the blinkers are rated at 10W. The brake light is at 21w. Compare the differences in intensity, it should be a fair bit.

Having said that, I havent checked what the globes are in my 01 GS (bugger curiosity is getting the better of me now!!) Oh bugger its a Bloody Miracle it Works (heh heh BMW . Sorry sorry I love my Beamer)
I really dont know about the mods Aridriel, no guarantee. Take my advice mate DOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNT DO IT!!! It would make you cranky to let the smoke out of the wiring harness of your pride and joy

[Gravel Seeker]

Tridon (The worlds largest relay manufacturer) makes three kinds of relays;
Thermal, the old fashion kind.
Electro-mechanical, which is a better relay than the thermal. Lifespan is 200 times of a thermal.
Electrical, top of the crop. 500 times longer lifespan than a thermal one.

Since it works fine when the engine is off, it's got to have something to do with the dynamo and the hightened current delivery, no ?

Fuck, I will not give up on this !
Thanks for trying anyway :):