ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Regional forums > Pacific Northwet - Where it's green. And wet.
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-11-2008, 10:23 PM   #1
fallzboater OP
Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass
 
fallzboater's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Hood River, OR
Oddometer: 512
Bluhduh VBR ticket in OR, Hwy 26

I got clocked at 61 in a posted 45 mph "Safety Corridor" along Hwy. 26 between Sandy and Gov't Camp (MP 41). The friendly OSP Officer Worthy checked the "VBR" (Violation of Basic Rule) box, saying I was going too fast for conditions, rather than the "Posted Limit" or "Hwy Wk Zn" boxes. I would not contest the speed, but I do take exception to it being too fast for conditions (sunny, straight road, very light traffic, no lane or shoulder closure). He also noted "Safety Corridor $x2" and $206 under base fine. I'm not sure whether they expect me to pay $206 or $412.

I'm not too keen to appear in the Oregon City Circuit Court, unless it's going to save me quite a bit of money on the ticket or insurance. I normally just chalk it up to road tax. What strategy would you recommend?
__________________
David Mackintosh
DoD #1360

'94 Cagiva e900 Elefant
fallzboater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2008, 10:30 PM   #2
DireWolf
Knees in the Breeze
 
DireWolf's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: In the Mustard Booyah. Whooop!!
Oddometer: 12,794
I think your in for $412 boss.



Sorry, I shouldn't laugh.........


Seriously that sucks, but it might not be worth fighting unless "VBR" means something more than the others WRT your lisence/insurance.

Sit?

oregoncoast?
__________________
Please help Elias' (Toolfan's) young family - they lost a husband and a father: Donation Page: Toolfan Support Fund
DireWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 07:40 AM   #3
fallzboater OP
Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass
 
fallzboater's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Hood River, OR
Oddometer: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by DireWolf
Sorry, I shouldn't laugh.........


Quote:
Originally Posted by DireWolf
Seriously that sucks, but it might not be worth fighting unless "VBR" means something more than the others WRT your lisence/insurance.
Yeah, I guess that's the question.

I was actually on my way back from the Team Oregon ART course at Pat's Acres in Canby, hah! I may cover that in another post, but I could sum it up by saying: "ART program and instructors excellent, cruisers suck and have no business on a go-cart track with real motorcycles."
__________________
David Mackintosh
DoD #1360

'94 Cagiva e900 Elefant

fallzboater screwed with this post 08-12-2008 at 08:11 AM
fallzboater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 07:46 AM   #4
Road Rash
Infamous
 
Road Rash's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: The Original OC, in Oregon
Oddometer: 18,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallzboater
I got clocked at 61 in a posted 45 mph "Safety Corridor" along Hwy. 26 between Sandy and Gov't Camp (MP 41).



I'm not too keen to appear in the Oregon City Circuit Court, unless it's going to save me quite a bit of money
In a safety corridor I think yer pretty screwed


Come to OC though, and I'll buy ya a beer.................just one if your driving or riding
__________________
"A man can never have too many motorcycles, like any good craftsman you need the proper tool for the job at hand. A man needs more tools than a hammer, the same goes for bikes." ~Mr. Cob~

My Ride Through Roatan
Road Rash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 10:06 AM   #5
Beerslayer
Journeyman Bike Knocker
 
Beerslayer's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: "Looking For Beer"
Oddometer: 3,734
I have spent several evenings in that particular court. The judges in that courtroom in general are quite fair, unlike what I have seen in most municipal courts.

It is unlikely that you will get this one thrown out on a technicality. Your best hope is to ask for a continuance. The first one is always a gimme. The LEO will schedule his cites for trial on the same evening. When the court gives you a continuance, they generally don't check the officer's schedule to see if he is available. He might be on vacation, responding to an emergency, or just say "screw it' and not show up.

If the LEO doesn't show up, you can ask for a dismissal.

Worst case is the officer does show up, you get up there like a dummy and stumble through your lame ass defense and get to pay the fine anyway. Always ask for a trial. It costs the courts money, they have to pay the officer overtime to show up, and reduces their take from your ticket.

If everyone contested their ticket, the tickets would stop. They depend on most people just paying it. There isn't enough capacity in the court system to provide a trial for every ticket written.

If you are really serious about fighting the ticket join the National Motorists Association http://www.motorists.org/
They have great ticket fighting resources. At the very least, ask for the continuance and make the officer show up on their day off. Since you are from out of town, it is possible they will think you are not going to show. It has worked for me many times.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Rash
I really want to do this, but have a prior commitment................that I am doing my best to get out of.
Road Rash Riding Roatan
Beerslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 11:57 AM   #6
fallzboater OP
Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass
 
fallzboater's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Hood River, OR
Oddometer: 512
Good tips, BS, I'll try it. What do you think about asking for discovery? Would that make it seem more likely that I'm going to show up?

I've read the ORS sections here:
http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/811.html
It looks like the LEO can choose to write you for the basic rule violation at any speed at all if he feels conditions warrant, or at any speed above the posted limit, regardless of conditions. It's a Class B violation, same as speeding 21-30 mph over the posted limit. I expect that's going to look worse on my record than if he'd written me for speeding 11-20 mph over the limit, a Class C violation. I don't know if it's OSP policy to always use the VBR in the Safety Corridor, or if he just didn't like me.
__________________
David Mackintosh
DoD #1360

'94 Cagiva e900 Elefant
fallzboater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 12:24 PM   #7
old wanderer
Old quick guy
 
old wanderer's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Bonney Lake, WA
Oddometer: 371
I got one of those dismissed over in Ontario earlier this year....was cited for 60 in a 45, but the limit was 65, however the roads did have a snow cover.

The officer stated he had to do almost 90 MPH to run me down....turns out I was driving my 4X4 PU and he had almost the same make/model as mine...so how unsafe was my 5 mph uner the posted limit, just because the offiecer stated the safe speed for the condition was only 45, and he did 90 MPH...

Got to fight to win however.
__________________
The Old Wanderer

Iron Butt #32691

Life begins at 30 but starts to become really fascinating approaching 150!!

2008 KLR 705+
2007 Beta 525RR
2003 Aprilia Futura
2001 Aprilia Falco(2)
2002 Aprilia CapoNord
2000 Honda CBR 600 F4 (Track only)
old wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 12:45 PM   #8
Beerslayer
Journeyman Bike Knocker
 
Beerslayer's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: "Looking For Beer"
Oddometer: 3,734
[quote=fallzboater]Good tips, BS, I'll try it. What do you think about asking for discovery? Would that make it seem more likely that I'm going to show up?.[/quote

I thought of that, it is always something I take into consideration when preparing a defense. You could always ask for the officer's training records, maint and calibration records on the speed measuring device, etc.

The OSP is a pretty professional organization, unlike a lot of underfunded small town PDs. They have had a bazillion discovery requests, they know which ones they can safely ignore, and generally have their bases covered.

For a straight out speeding in a Safety Corridor, the judge will probably ignore any defense you present. That is like drowning kittens or threatening the lives of vulnerable small children. Your best bet is to make it inconvenient for the cop to show up, and make it cost them some money if the cop does show up. Win or lose, if you make any effort to defend yourself, they lose, therefore you win. In this case, a discovery request might work against you.

OldHuskyRider would probably have a better sense of how the court works in Oregon City if you have any more questions about that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Rash
I really want to do this, but have a prior commitment................that I am doing my best to get out of.
Road Rash Riding Roatan
Beerslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 01:46 PM   #9
fallzboater OP
Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass
 
fallzboater's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Hood River, OR
Oddometer: 512
I thought we agreed to never, ever, say anything about the kittens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerslayer
Your best bet is to make it inconvenient for the cop to show up, and make it cost them some money if the cop does show up. Win or lose, if you make any effort to defend yourself, they lose, therefore you win.
I don't know; if I lose, I still lose. It's a nice thought, but I'm not going to get a lot of personal satisfaction out of costing a Gov't agency that I'm already paying for a little additional money. I have had some luck with fines being significantly reduced in court, though.
__________________
David Mackintosh
DoD #1360

'94 Cagiva e900 Elefant
fallzboater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 02:52 PM   #10
crazybrit
Beastly Adventurer
 
crazybrit's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 8,560
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallzboater
What strategy would you recommend?
My experience is if you want to get off, or get it reduced, you HAVE to have an attorney. Eilse you're paying.

The above is based on 2 trips to Portland traffic court. Maybe OSP is different?

- In Portland court I was told that each side gets one continuance for free. So if you ask for one, the officer gets one too. So they'd have to not show twice -- which ain't gonna happen. You may want to check with the court in question on this before relying on Beerslayers suggestion.

- First time I went, all the cases were for 3 officers. All were present. Second time, it was for 2 officers. Both were present.

I thought I had a cast iron get out for the second one, so I was in a pedantic mood. There was a comical case at the start, guy had a lawyer (and a state funded interpreter even tho his english was more than adequate) and was trying to paint it as a racial profiling case so it dragged on. In the end they split off all the photo radar cases to a diff court room. Since there was a delay, the officer offered up some deal where he'd reduce the tickets if you pled out to move things along. I chose to not take him up on his offer

This is where I learnt that you needed an attorney. I'm confident had I got one, it would have been dismissed. Not for the actual basis of my claim, as then every other similar case would be at risk, but they'll dismiss it for some tangental reason if it's clear you're lawyered up, have a decent defence and are willing to go to appeal if necessary.

Not sure you do in this case but a laywer may be able to get a reduction, eliminate the 2x safety corridor etc. Maybe more.

crazybrit screwed with this post 08-12-2008 at 04:45 PM
crazybrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 02:55 PM   #11
crazybrit
Beastly Adventurer
 
crazybrit's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 8,560
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallzboater
I have had some luck with fines being significantly reduced in court, though.
They stopped doing this for a while but it appears they reinstated the judicial discretion bit. I think it's automatic if you plead guily/no contest, no need to show up in court but I could be wrong. Call the court, they'll be able to tell you this. For sure, if you show in person you can get some reduction if your record is clean. That said, it's a huge time sink. Worst is parking tickets, in P-Town they make people contesting these wait till after all the moving violation cases have been done which is like 4 hours wait.

I need to get a radar detector again as I've been ticket free for like 5 years now. No idea how.
crazybrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 04:38 PM   #12
fallzboater OP
Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass
 
fallzboater's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Hood River, OR
Oddometer: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazybrit
For sure, if you show in person you can get some reduction if your record is clean.
No such luck. I average about one per year, mostly less than 20 over on open roads, never residential or anything like that.

Quote:
I need to get a radar detector again as I've been ticket free for like 5 years now. No idea how.
It helps some of the time, mostly with slack local cops driving around town with their guns on, or if you have a speeding sponsor ahead of you on the road.
__________________
David Mackintosh
DoD #1360

'94 Cagiva e900 Elefant
fallzboater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 04:41 PM   #13
crazybrit
Beastly Adventurer
 
crazybrit's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 8,560
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallzboater
No such luck. I average about one per year, mostly less than 20 over on open roads, never residential or anything like that.
I don't think you'll get any reduction by showing in court then.
crazybrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 05:26 PM   #14
Beerslayer
Journeyman Bike Knocker
 
Beerslayer's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: "Looking For Beer"
Oddometer: 3,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazybrit
The above is based on 2 trips to Portland traffic court. Maybe OSP is different?

- In Portland court I was told that each side gets one continuance for free. So if you ask for one, the officer gets one too. So they'd have to not show twice -- which ain't gonna happen. You may want to check with the court in question on this before relying on Beerslayers suggestion.
My experience is all outside of City of Portland courts, and happens to be mostly in the court in question, Clackamas County.

I have never seen a continuance automatically granted if an officer just doesn't show. Almost always the judge will throw it out. I have never had an officer ask for a continuance. Either they show or they don't.

Tony knows a lot more about Portland courts than I do. I think when he goes to town he kicks up his heels and is naughty
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Rash
I really want to do this, but have a prior commitment................that I am doing my best to get out of.
Road Rash Riding Roatan
Beerslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 05:32 PM   #15
crazybrit
Beastly Adventurer
 
crazybrit's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 8,560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerslayer
I have never seen a continuance automatically granted if an officer just doesn't show.
What I was trying to say (poorly) was that if you request a continuance, to try and throw them off balance (I believe this was your suggestion, no?) so that they reschedule (hopefully when the officer isn't available) then if the officer doesn't show up for the second date, they get a continuance too, to balance out your one.

This is how it's always worked in other jurasdictons I've unfortunately had to go to court in. I'm not sure Portland is any different.

Now, if the officer doesn't show up at the initial date, then sure, I think you get a dismissal .... but this wasn't what you were suggesting is it or did I misread?

Tony
crazybrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014