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Old 09-08-2008, 08:55 AM   #16
bikerlt OP
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Hope this isn't too dumb a question, but how do I get to Max BMW to check it out on the fiche?

Phactory, you wouldn't happen to have a BMW part number for that kit do you? That appears to be EXACTLY what I've been searching for ever since I got this bike.

Was the assembly PITA that you referred to getting the wiper rings compressed and reinserted in the tube? I remember the first time I did it I actually machined a circular shim on a lathe with a slight inside chamfer .. quite a bit of work and it worked great. I was so proud of myself. The second time I rebuilt the forks I discovered a tip on one of these boards that suggested a good stiff business card, cut to fit the internal tube ID does exactly the same thing. Worked even better than my shim. Couldn't be more cheap and disposable! Oh well.

Turns out that there were in fact urethane bushings in the forks. My Clymer manual shows them. My forks are the Type II. Black rubber bushing on top of the spring and reddish (urethane?) bushing on the bottom. Everything inside was tight. I even have a thin shim on one side that keeps the spacer (number 14 in explosion) firm in the barrel. Mysteriously the Clymer book advises that if the wiper assembly is removed/replaced on the threaded shaft, then you must replace these shims to compensate for however the shaft length plus wiper assembly has changed. What?? The valve assembly is held into the tube (on my bike) with a circlip holding it against that lip that is so difficult to get past when reinserting the wiper rings into the barrel. The shims merely compensate for very slight errors in tolerance here to keep the valve housing from rattling. The length of the shaft cannot possibly affect this dimension! My clymers is chock full of these nonsense directions.

I called BMW and he did not have anything listed like a kit, but I bet it's just because he doesn't have a part number.

If this works I'll be the happiest guy here.

edit.... just got off the phone with the second parts counter guy I was able to telephone (most bmw places seem to be closed on mondays). The first guy was no help at all and the second guy actually started to lose his patience with me. Both claimed that there is no such thing as a bmw upgrade kit for the forks and when I simply read the numbers off for him he said that that compression spring is available but one of the other part numbers is no longer made. But he (almost angrily) repeated that there were no "kits". AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGH this is frustrating. I'll have to check with Grand Rapids BMW tomorrow and see if I can order those three parts separately.. or better, if they list a kit.


Incidentally, this is probably a thread that most BMW owners can relate to in one way or another. There is a "problem" identified with this R65 engine in that it vibrates a bit at about 4200 rpm. Sure, I notice it. It is a bit irritating. But relativity is the key. Of all the bikes I've ever owned, my BMW is the smoothest overall. At most RPMs when it's tuned well the engine vibration basically disappears. At 4200 rpm it is STILL smoother than any other bike I've owned. What I'm getting at is that the fork clunk is just so damn irritating to deal with against the backgound of such a (except for a little healthy valve clatter) dead quiet and dead smooth bike that it just constantly seems to be calling out for attention. Same front end clunk on a Harley would probably just blend right in with all the other clunks, groans, blaaaats, and wheezes!

bikerlt screwed with this post 09-08-2008 at 09:58 AM
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerlt
Hope this isn't too dumb a question, but how do I get to Max BMW to check it out on the fiche? ....snip...
I keep Max's fiche page bookmarked for quick lookups before calling my parts guy. http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/fiche.asp

Keep us posted if you round up all the parts and how the forks turn out.
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:58 AM   #18
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Thanks for that. I finally did figure out how to get to the fiche. MaxBmw ought to get some sort of award for how to negotiate its site. I loved those dropdown menus. I wish more sites were like this.

The valve barrel that is number 14 in that R100 fork is the very same part# that is shown in the R65 fork from that fiche. The diagram to the right shows the update for the R100 fork but the update is not shown in the R65 diagram. I see no reason why the replacement/upgrade parts would not work for me (or anyone else who can identify PN#31422301016 in the diagram of their forks). Total cost is around 12USD for parts for both forks if the parts are available. I'll call maxbmw tomorrow. I was told elsewhere to call the NH store and ask for 'Rusty'.

I'll cross my fingers.
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Old 09-08-2008, 02:18 PM   #19
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bikerlt,

If you have access to a lathe then you can make a tool really easily. The PITA part is compressing the spring (in the replacement parts) and then fitting the snap ring. I made a tool that allows me to compress the spring using the PN# 20 (in the r100 fiche) and then I can do the snap ring easily.

Phil


Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerlt
Phactory, you wouldn't happen to have a BMW part number for that kit do you? That appears to be EXACTLY what I've been searching for ever since I got this bike.

Was the assembly PITA that you referred to getting the wiper rings compressed and reinserted in the tube?
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:54 AM   #20
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Little catch.... in the exploded view of that R100 fork. The last two columns seem to suggest that 19, 11, 20, 21 are all required to make up for (replace) individual part 14. You didn't mention 19 in your posts. Are all four parts required?
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:04 AM   #21
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Try riding a /6 if you want to see how bad forks can work,clunking,clanking,binding when you hit a big bump leaned over.They are the worst Ive tried by far.Other owners say you'll get used to it,they dont even notice it anymore. I was probably trying to ride it too fast but still...................................Ive had a 73 Norton that was better then that. One thing for sure BMW doesnt build the insides of those forks like any other,out of stubborness or? Its all part of the character of the bike I think.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:15 AM   #22
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Yours may have needed rebuilding badly, as when working properly, the /5, /6 and /7 (before the Brembos) work very well. From what I've been told, they're much more sophisticated than the 81-4 models with the Brembos. I'm actually surprised you have that opinion. Did you know that BMW was the first to come out with hydraulic front suspension in the 30s? Sometime around then.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:46 PM   #23
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Well, with all respect to phactory (I mean that), I've been disuaded from updating the fork components following a long conversation with a very reputable parts guy (who I won't name just in case this is contentious). After he explained exactly what the upgrade was meant to remedy I realized that I had already accomplished the same with the addition of shims in the same area. When I told him this he agreed. The valve housing was never perfectly situated in the barrel and BMW knew that in order to keep it from rattling around they had to supply the dealerships with shims. This got to be a headache since you had to rely on each mechanic to get it perfect, so the upgrade just split the housing (the kit is referred to as a 'split housing' kit) and inserted a spring in between the two halves. No need anymore for shims, obviously. Otherwise, the valving was the same and damping response unchanged. If, as I have, the shims are adequately supplied to keep the original part from moving, then the update will not do me any good. DAMN.... DOUBLE DAMN!!!!!!

This rattle/clunk is gonna end up being the Inspector Clouseau to my Commissioner Dreyfus. My eye is starting to twitch as I write this.
AAArrrrrrggggghhhhhh. Help me!
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:52 PM   #24
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Now that you've decided against the upgrade, I'll play Devil's Advocate..

What if for some reason your shim modification doesn't do the job as well as the "split housing kit" with its extra spring(if I'm reading the drawings correctly). If the parts only run $20 or $30 or anywhere under about $50, I'd gamble on it just to see what happens.

Maybe that's why I don't have as much money as I do time any more - I have to go for it just to see the outcome
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:16 AM   #25
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mark1305 you've been reading my mind. I must add another layer of foil.

Yeah, it would be nice to at least eliminate every possiblity. Ironic that this little ghost in my machine would have compelled me to learn about and repair so much in it. I've had, over time, 80 percent of the bike disassembled while trying to track this down.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:11 AM   #26
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there has to be a pony in here somewhere...!
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
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there has to be a pony in here somewhere...!


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Old 09-10-2008, 01:49 PM   #28
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This is the post where I detail what gets swapped. #19, #11, and #20 go in and replace #14. #16 and #21 are both snap rings for two different production dates.

You probably can remove some of the slop by shimming, and the available shims are shown in the drawing as #15. This is easy enough to check if you have your forks off and apart.

But just shimming is no where near as effective as this kit, which cost a total of $15.44 (List price for all 6 pieces) and does not require shimming. I always felt that this was BMW's answer to the Anti_Dive Kits that Luftmeister used to sell.

PhacK

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Solo Lobo,

Great pic! Thanks, I would have done that myself, but I was at work.

Close, take out #14 and replace it with #11, #19, and #20. ALso this is only for the 1981 - 1984 forks.

Phack
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:58 AM   #29
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Since it has been a couple of years since I have had my CS on the road I forgot exactly when my forks used to do the clunking. But the more I thought about it, I remembered that it was always at full extension over really bad bumps. To me that seems like that is when the damper rods get banged against the the existing PN #14.

Now if #14 needs to be shimmed it can be quite a clunk. Even if shimmed properly it will still make noise when you hit that type of bump.

What the kit does for you is to add some give (via the spring) to the damper rod if it does fully extend against the stop. For this reason alone I think the extremely small cost of this upgrade is worth it.

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Old 09-12-2008, 12:14 PM   #30
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When I got my R80ST back in 91 or 92
I found that it did this clunk.
I freaked out. In those pre internet days (at least for us normal none geeks)
You just had to ask around.
And ask I did everyone who I could ask who I thought might know something.

Finally I came down to the old
"They all do that"

Or in other words
"BMW's are weird, we can't figure out how to make it not be weird so we put up with the weirdness for the sake of being able to ride the bike and not be driven Mad."

I seem to recal that someone even mentioned that BMW sent out a TSB
That pretty much said the clunk was standard at the extreme movements of the fork.

It's interesting to note that my K-bike forked R80 (well really the wife's R80)
Doesn't clunk.
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