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Old 09-03-2008, 01:56 AM   #16
bgoodsoil OP
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I can't get to sleep so I might as well take it out on the bike. I've buttoned up everything that I took off last week, now zenrider has me convinced that I should pull it all apart again sooner rather than later. When Nathan gets in the high fifths, hopefully next month, he'll have my tranny.

I could install my Trailtech computer....if I had it. I could put in the new fork.....if I had it. I could install the LED lighting....if I had it. The fork should be in this week so I went ahead and attempted to pull the old one. Actually, wait, I'm going to put this in Elmoreman's DR fork thread so other folks can have it all in one place. adios
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Old 09-03-2008, 02:18 AM   #17
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I like that Bee shot.

Just add a pipe, and you look like Popeye.

Sorry, couldnt help myself.

Great bike by the way
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Old 09-03-2008, 02:29 AM   #18
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ha! man, I posted that pic over in Face Plant and some guy uploaded this. I haven't gotten any tattoos in a while, I lived on a boat for a few years, maybe I should get me some anchors!
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Old 09-03-2008, 05:01 AM   #19
Gimmeslack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWzenrider
...
And if you don't recognize the symptoms early enough, you are going to be replacing gears, or complete shafts...
NOT cheap.


So what ARE the symptoms?
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Old 09-03-2008, 07:29 AM   #20
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Output shaft munch clues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmeslack
So what ARE the symptoms?
Well, that is the main problem for most G/S-GS riders, the first clue/symptom is when the back end feels like you are riding on a fresh knobby. Especially when pulling under power in 5th gear.
If you ride with agressive rubber, it could mask the feeling till it is too late.
If you are riding on gravel, you will never feel it until your transmission is about to explode.

It is just a sort of rumbling/shuddering vibration through the rear wheel & driveshaft that you will first feel under hard acceleration in top gear.

-----

One other way to diagnose it is to have the bike in the air and to turn the rear wheel with the tranny in neutral and feel for any "notchyness" as it turns.

But again, with the sharp angle that our U-joints go through when on center stand, that makes it harder to do as well.

Looking for bits of hard stuff on the magnetic drain plug is always a clue, of course...
Or you could disconnect the driveshaft and turn the output flange by hand to feel for any roughness or notchyness as it turns.

-----

Some bean counter who didn't understand helical cut gears thought they could save $25 per transmission by eliminating this little clip because, "Hey there haven't been any problems with the clip there, what harm could it do to take it away?"...
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Old 09-03-2008, 07:43 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoodsoil
I can't get to sleep so I might as well take it out on the bike. I've buttoned up everything that I took off last week, now zenrider has me convinced that I should pull it all apart again sooner rather than later. When Nathan gets in the high fifths, hopefully next month, he'll have my tranny.
Didn't mean to cause any loss of sleep...

I tend to be a preventative maintenance type of guy, and have been visited by this issue early on too many bikes to not want to address it sooner rather than paying for extra parts later.

In the case of the recent R100GS, it was a very good thing to crack the cases open due to the neglect of the PO (may he burn in hell!).

There was sediment accumulated INSIDE the case that needed to be first scraped out; and then soaked with Simple Green and scrubbed to remove.
(Oh, and the shimming was off on 2 of the three shafts... the previous "rebuild" was a hack as well...)

But all is well now, and it is fully cleaned/flushed, has fresh seals, and is swimming in a nice bath of 75w90 Mobil-1.

Sleep well...
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Old 09-03-2008, 08:48 AM   #22
Doug Grosjean
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Symptoms - sometimes the ones listed don't happen....

FWIW, re: output shaft bearing failure symptoms.

This is *very* fresh for me, because I just went through it on my 1992 R100gs with 90k miles on the odometer.

Background:
R100gs with 90k miles on the odo, purchased used in May 2005 with 40k miles on the odo, and unknown service history, but all seemed fine. I mostly commute on it, but have been known to ride 2-up on Colorado, Michigan, and Ohio Jeep trails as well. Have enjoyed the GS on the Blue Ridge Parkway with my 12 y/o son in 2006, a poker run, did my first 1k day on it in 2005, and assorted other adventures.

I checked the trans oil often for clues, found none.

First clue there was a problem was oil coming out of my swingarm pivot this past June. I traced it to the output seal. Hey, it's 16 y/o and rubber doesn't last forever, prolly just a seal. I was warned online (by my buddy Tom Cutter) that the bearing had prolly failed, and I should unhook d/s and rotate the output shaft around by hand, feeling for any non-smooth rotation. I did, felt fine to me.

I took trans to local dealer, instructed them to replace all trans seals, and check the bearings. They did, I picked up trans 2 weeks later, and they reported bearings were fine. Install trans, and seal fails in 100 miles. Tom Cutter repeats to me that it's likely I have a failed bearing, but dealer says they'll warranty the seal, so I gamble and take the bike in for 2 more weeks.

Another week or two goes by, because dealer is far away I can't just drop the bike off but have to arrange a lift, etc. Dealer replaces the seal a second time, tearing my brand-new d/s boot in the process (BIG tear, but it made leak obvious later on...). 100 miles later, and now I have trans oil coming out of bottom of hole in d/s boot. That's how I found the hole....

Dealer offers to replace the seal again, but at that point I no longer have any faith that they're capable of doing the job successfully, and with the tear in my new d/s boot, I'd just as soon they not touch the bike again. Since the dealer is 100 miles away, and my alternate transport is a 18-MPG Jeep Wrangler, each time I have to shuttle the GS to the dealer and then drive the car for 2 weeks, it's about $200 out of my pocket in added fuel costs, and so I figure I can't afford free repairs that don't stay repaired.

Off goes the transmission to Tom Cutter around August 1, no longer a big hurry at this point (after 2 months) because I have other projects to tend to in August that are non-negotiable (Very Boring Rally in Duluth, via car...) and so I tell Tom to just keep me in the loop, and I'll likely OK whatever he finds.

Maybe 10 days later we talk on the phone, and it's the lack-of-circlip problem. Bearing is toast, 5th gear is toast. Other parts are good. He quotes me a price on repair, suggests the slightly-taller 5th gear replacement, and I agree. I send check, he sends repaired trans back to me. I install, after also putting in an engine rear main seal, oil pump O-ring, clutch and clutch cable for good measure (at 90k miles, I figure the bike deserves some TLC and parts).

Bike is now oil tight at rear of engine (PO had poorly routed an oil breather line into airbox, and the mist looked like a leak), and trans. Nice to have pretty aluminum showing instead of grease.


Sypmtoms:
Just the oil leak. No weirdness in ride or handling. No abnormal vibes. Bearings even felt smooth enough when checking by hand that I deemed them to be fine, and the dealer concurred. After dealer's second oil seal replacement, shifting into upper gears seemed to be getting a little more notchy. In retrospect, probably wasn't my imagination.

Miles I rode it with bad bearing:
At least 300-400 miles, due to repeated trips to the dealer in MI (I'm in OH). But I suspect the bearing was going bad for a long time, because after Tom replaced the bearing, the trans is almost silent. Prior, it had had bearing noise since I bought it at 40k miles back in May 2005. But big caution here - these were *easy* miles. A guy hauling fast down the Interstate, with the same failure, could lose lube fast and really cook a lot of high-dollar parts in a hurry. I kept oil in mine, at one point stopping to add trans. lube to limp the thing up to the dealer, after I saw that I had LOTS of oil on my rear wheel.

So my own experience is that this isn't an instantenous failure, but a slow one that an attentive rider *might* catch. But it could still really screw up your vaca if it happened the 5th day out on your once-in-a-lifetime Alaska trip.

Summary:
Tom did good work. He kept me in the loop. Trans was clean and well-packed when I got it back, and had warning tags reminding me to add oil. No complaints, only compliments.

Minor Disclaimer:
I've known Tom for a few years, and consider him a friend. I bought my Wilbers shock from him, he's bought (and likes) my book about riding with my son, and now and then we enjoy email correspondence. But the Summary above says it all.
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1992 R100gs - 102k (62k are mine)
1993 DR-350s - 52k
2000 Concours - 91k

A slew of others, come and gone....

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Old 09-03-2008, 09:23 AM   #23
Stagehand
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Doug!



Those numbers keep rolling around and around!

Still think about that all the time
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:18 PM   #24
criminaldesign
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as my dad says, a harley sportster rides like a 2x4.
his electra glide tho rides like a caddy. threwh me off how smooth and comfy it was. enough about harley though. good read. h
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:01 AM   #25
Doug Grosjean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagehand
Doug!



Those numbers keep rolling around and around!

Still think about that all the time
I know the feeling. Last night, I hit 90,314 at one point while out riding. What are the odds of that, a 90d corner and Pi, all in one display when not expecting it? Figuratively turning a corner, in some way....
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1992 R100gs - 102k (62k are mine)
1993 DR-350s - 52k
2000 Concours - 91k

A slew of others, come and gone....

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Old 09-04-2008, 09:16 AM   #26
Ritalin Boy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoodsoil
Hey! I've been taking up valuable screen space by starting a new thread every time I run in to some problem with my G/S project. I'm likely to have more questions so I'm making this thread so I can keep it all in one place.

So, for a little history....

I started riding about 5 years ago. At the time I was in the Coast Guard and stationed on an island off the coast of Alaska. We averaged over 100" of a rain a year so for my first 2 years of riding it was ALWAYS wet. My first bike was this '84 KDX200. It barely ran when I got it but after minor tuning it scared the hell outta me.


Then I saw Easy Rider......yeah, I'm one of the guys that got into riding because of that movie. I didn't have a ton of money, but I ended getting this '99 Vulcan 750 shipped up from Oregon for $3k. not bad!


I decided that when I got out of the CG I would ride my bike back home from Alaska to Georgia. The island I was on had 13 miles of paved road and the highest speed limit on the island was 45. The first time I ever had a motorcycle at 60mph for more than 15 seconds was when I got off the ferry in British Columbia on my ride home. Not a bad start to touring.

I slept in the woods for most of the trip home(power lines or next to radio towers) and decided I'd be better off with a more offroady bike if I wanted avoid hotels or campgrounds(I'm cheap). I picked up a KLR. I had it for about a year(and 23,000 miles!) before a little old lady pulled out in front of me. Here's my KLR.


I flew over the lady's hood, cracked my tibia on my handlebar enroute and dislocated my right shoulder upon my return to Mother Earth. I owe my armored jacket for the fact that I hit the pavement at 40mph and didn't break a bone. Now, I also wear full knee/shin pads every time I ride. Since I don't drive(my bug is still not running, 1 project at a time!) that's every day.

I got out of the hospital, got a hefty settlement from the insurance and bought a Harley Sportster. Worst mistake of my life. I rode it on a week and a half long trip to Mexico and returned determined to never ever ride a Harley again. If I can't ride it across the country, I don't want to ride it to the gas station.

That brings me up to about a months and a half ago when I found this
'85 r80G/S.


Last week it looked like this.....



Here's the plan: God willing I'll complete the round-trip to the Panama Canal next summer that I had intended for this summer. The bike runs fine but I'd like to do some heavy maintenance and modernize what needs it, mainly the electrics. I don't want to do any performance mods to the engine on this one, 45hp is fine with me.

So far I've.....
installed Enduralast alternator
new style Valeo starter
greased tranny splines
replaced FD boot
replaced pushrod seals
mailed solo seat off to Russell, good bye 70's-era shag-carpet-orange
seat, hello 21st century!

now all I want to do is......(updated)
replace all lights with LEDs
replace speedo with TrailTech computer and dashboard
figure out a solution for a headlight(I have a Rifle fairing that will only take
a 6" headlight, so the big 8" things I've found won't work)
replace front end with 2006 DR650 forks and brakes(if they'll ever show up)
rebuild carbs
replace handlebar and hand controls to modern 7/8" standard(that
gear mesh throttle is annoying)
install HPN tank(I sold the signed tank, I just knew I'd trash that thing)
scan my clymer's wiring harness, redraw it to match my bike after I
do everything to it, then print out a color copy, laminate and stick to
the underside of the seat so I'll always have it
LOUD ASS HORN

I'd appreciate any suggestions!

thanks,
brad
Oh dear Lord did you really send your seat to Russell???

I would be more than delighted to trade you mine plus a few bucks for yours, send my ratty seat to Russell instead!

But alas I fear it is too late.

Good luck with your project!
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Old 09-05-2008, 12:21 PM   #27
Rapid Dog
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Question Doug Grosjean

...but did you notice any vibes before the tranny was done right?
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Old 09-05-2008, 02:02 PM   #28
Doug Grosjean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapid Dog
...but did you notice any vibes before the tranny was done right?
No, just felt like normal flat-twin vibes to me. Nothing felt strange at all. Only symptom was oil leak.

I put about 50k miles on it in the 3 years I owned it, before trans went. Now I'm back at it....
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1992 R100gs - 102k (62k are mine)
1993 DR-350s - 52k
2000 Concours - 91k

A slew of others, come and gone....

Author of "Wheels"...
Owner / Operator of 1919 #10 Cirkut camera
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Old 09-05-2008, 05:29 PM   #29
BMWzenrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Grosjean
No, just felt like normal flat-twin vibes to me. Nothing felt strange at all. Only symptom was oil leak.
That is just my point, with the dual-sport knobbies that most run on the GS models, it would be hard to detect the faint rumble through the rear end that I could feel on the RT and on the R65 with smoother street rubber.

btw - nice to hear from you again Doug!
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Old 09-06-2008, 06:55 AM   #30
bgoodsoil OP
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a coupla weeks ago I was cutting down a few trees at my church and had to haul the logs waaaay off into the woods. I figured I'd make the job easier and drag 'em with the bike, and give that rear subframe a trial by fire at the same time. Well, the subframe held up just fine, the rear shock however did not. On the ride home I noticed the rear end wobbling around corners. I thought, "that's funny, usually just the front end wobbles!" Standing on the pegs and doing the 'bounce test', I found the rear performed well--best damn pogo stick I've ever tried in fact.

I ordered a new Ohlins from kyle racing, $700 for one dang shock, but it glowed like some kinda Indiana Jones treasure box when I opened it. Add that to the DR fork and I've got almost $1500 in suspension now. This wasn't meant to be a project bike, I just wanted to fix up a few things!

I've got a question for anyone that's put a different throttle on one of these. I went with DR forks so the clamps are 7/8" and I'd like a throttle that actually fits. Also, the brake perch on the DR is separate from the throttle. Will the small stopper at the end of the G/S throttle cables work in any throttle? I seem to remember my throttles in the past having a cylindrical stopper and this one's rectangular. Any thoughts?
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