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Old 05-22-2013, 11:36 PM   #4966
cug
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I really don't want to turn this into a chain vs. shaft thread, but I think some of the arguments are actually fairly interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Smoke View Post
I prefer the feel of a chain.
I can understand that. No question about the fact that a chain feels different. I don't mind either. For feel, I actually prefer a belt drive over either chain or shaft.

I'm quoting this for reference now:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Smoke View Post
I never had any problems with my shaft drives. Never a hiccup. I put 80,000 miles on my 1150 after buying the bike with 30K on the odometer. It had right at 110,000 miles on the odo when I sold it to an inmate hear about 6 years ago;
...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Smoke View Post
I usually change my chains on street bikes after about 7-8000 miles just for caution. It also keeps me from ever having to adjust the tension. Chains are cheap. I've never spent more than $225 bucks on a chain
Okay, so after 80,000 miles you are out about $2250 on chains and sprockets and that doesn't even include labour and maintenance. Hmm. Not really cheaper than the shaft. But okay, you wouldn't have to change the chains that often. It still doesn't make sense that people think a shaft is more expensive overall. Even if chains last 20k miles on average, they'd still be more expensive from all I can see.

From my perspective it makes total sense to say "I prefer the feeling of a chain over a shaft drive". But most other arguments aren't that realistic. Especially not the cost argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deWog View Post
Chains are far more efficient than shafts:
Only new / perfectly maintained chains. Not many of those out there ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by deWog View Post
Also KTM have stated that they did not even consider a shaft for their new 1190 Adventure; Reason? - After two decades of winning the Dakar rallies they never thought chains were ever an issue to serious offroad riding......
Why would I care what makes sense for the Dakar? I'm not riding a race with my bikes. I go on vacation trips, weekend rides, day trips, commutes, ... all situations where the benefits of a chain are completely irrelevant for me, but the downsides are there anyways.

Luckily there are enough bikes with shaft drive out there. People will (and do) vote with their money. The Multi is a great bike, just not for some based on (perceived) shortcomings for the desired usage. That's all fine.

I'm riding a bike with a chain at the moment - the overall bike might be worth it for a while. Still, I bet that my next bike will not have a chain.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:56 PM   #4967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post

Okay, so after 80,000 miles you are out about $2250 on chains and sprockets and that doesn't even include labour and maintenance. Hmm. Not really cheaper than the shaft. But okay, you wouldn't have to change the chains that often. It still doesn't make sense that people think a shaft is more expensive overall.
I usually spend around 150$ on a chain but like I said I don't think I've ever paid more than $225 for one. Labor? I don't charge myself labor. Try squeezing a shaft final drive into your tank bag lol.

I understand what you're saying about cost over the life of the bike but you won't be thinking about that if your final drive breaks while you're on vacation far away from home. You won't be thinking about how over the life of the bike chains equal the cost of a a final drive when you're writing that check for 2500$ and perusing the $150 chains on display while waiting on the repair.

Like I said though I've got some serious miles on final drives and they've never let me down.
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:14 AM   #4968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
Okay, so after 80,000 miles you are out about $2250 on chains and sprockets and that doesn't even include labour and maintenance. Hmm. Not really cheaper than the shaft. But okay, you wouldn't have to change the chains that often. It still doesn't make sense that people think a shaft is more expensive overall. Even if chains last 20k miles on average, they'd still be more expensive from all I can see.
That is a bit silly. Throughout the life of a chain you need a rear sprocket and two fronts and you are good for 25K miles easily. With an automatic chain oiler make that 40K and maintenance is almost nil.

I can understand the pro-shaft arguments, it is not that hard. But they do require maintenance too. Ask a bmw dealer how much they charge for an overhaul of a rear system (final drive/splines/shaft), which you will need sooner or later if you rack up the miles.

The real argument here is chain vs belt drive. Best of both worlds, but belts probably need some time to evolve a bit more for high hp applications.

Now correct me if wrong, but does the MS1200 have a 15T front sprocket? This is a problem...
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:29 AM   #4969
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Chains can last quite a while too. My old VFR had the original chain and sprokets on it when I sold it with 30K miles and they were still in good shape and in spec. I've also seen bikes with much more. All it really takes is cleaning, proper adjustment, and lubrication.

FWIW: My VFR had a Scottoiler and my Multi will have one very soon.

That said, I can't really argue the against the virtues of a properly engineered shaft. I've personally never seen one of any type fail. Can't say that for all chains. (Ok I can for 99% of them in "my experience" anyway.)
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:49 AM   #4970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
I really don't want to turn this into a chain vs. shaft thread, but I think some of the arguments are actually fairly interesting.


Why would I care what makes sense for the Dakar?


The Multi is a great bike, just not for some based on (perceived) shortcomings for the desired usage.
.
You may not have wanted to but you did.

You seem to care about what makes sense or works for others, so why not Dakar?

The Tiger is a great little bike, "just not for some based on (perceived) shortcomings for the desired usage."


Just joking of course, all in good fun!
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:49 AM   #4971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
I really don't want to turn this into a chain vs. shaft thread, but I think some of the arguments are actually interesting...



(Re efficiency of chains over shafts)


Only new / perfectly maintained chains. Not many of those out there ...

Actually that's incorrect: do some research on chain vs shaft drive.....better still here are some links (I can provide countless others) -

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...d-chain-drive/

http://www.youmotorcycle.com/motorcy...aft-drive.html

http://motorcycle-intelligence.com/chain-belt-shaft/64/

The efficiency of chain over shaft has nothing to do with how new or old it is: all motorbike shaft drives incorporate a 90* bevel gear in the rear final drive. This is typically (though not always) a helical cut gear transferring power to a ring pinion gear, and by its very design the teeth of the drive gear have to "slip" against the pinion cog, hence it is simply not as efficient as a chain and sprocket set (which has virtually no slippage).


Quote:
Why would I care what makes sense for the Dakar? I'm not riding a race with my bikes. I go on vacation trips, weekend rides, day trips, commutes, ... all situations where the benefits of a chain are completely irrelevant for me, but the downsides are there anyways.
.
My point was that a major manufacturer of adventure bikes sees no practical disadvantage with chains, even in the most extreme of circumstances (ie - Dakar rallies!!) . I'm a fan of shaft drives (I've been a Guzzi tragic for a long time, and even owned a GSA 1200 last year.......). But to me their only real advantage lies in not having to grease them every couple of thousand kms....
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:15 PM   #4972
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Congratulations, EJ! Great choice. Your PP looks the business. Many happy trails!
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:30 PM   #4973
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Congratulations, EJ! Great choice. Your PP looks the business. Many happy trails!
Thanks, now if I could just find some time to ride more!
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:04 PM   #4974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
The Tiger is a great little bike, "just not for some based on (perceived) shortcomings for the desired usage."
Totally agreed. Right now I very much prefer it over the Multi (although I have put appropriate suspension front and rear).
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Old 05-23-2013, 03:30 PM   #4975
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Nice!

Beautiful Bike EJ - many happy miles to come I am sure.

Enjoy it! DD
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:51 AM   #4976
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You can't look at a driveshaft and determine what kind of condition it's in, and whether or not it's likely to leave you on the side of the road, but you can get a pretty good idea of condition by looking at a chain/sprocket. When I rode nothing but shaft-drive beemers I was fairly hung up on the advantage of that, but after going through a lot of Ducati's with chains over the past 5-6 years, the maintenance is a non-issue. I really wish my HP2 Sport had a chain, since the only thing I don't like about the bike is the jacking of the driveshaft when you get on/off throttle, and the lag in between. It's not something that I even noticed on my GS's or other beemers, but with the light weight of the HP2, the relatively high bhp, and light flywheel, it's a totally different experience. I've gotten used to it by not completely closing the throttle while downshifting on a corner entry, and trying to be smooth when opening it up again.
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:50 PM   #4977
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When the issue of chain vs shaft raises it's ugly head , i find wine and cheese to be a good solution.

A litre or so of red, and i find the problem goes away.

I heartily recommend it..
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:27 PM   #4978
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Go get a 900lb 30hp harley if you want a shaft drive. this thread is about a sexy exotic ducati multistrada, get back to the photos and off the grandpa topic about shaft drives. The multistrada doesn't have one (thank god), deal with it.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:36 PM   #4979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrphotoman View Post
Go get a 900lb 30hp harley if you want a shaft drive.
Harleys have belt drive ... just sayin' ...
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:03 PM   #4980
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Moving along, I ordered the Ohlins ECU today. It will be a week or ten days before I get mine so others may have input before I do, but I thought it sounded like it has good potential (or potentiometers) so I put my name down for one.

I will report my findings when I get it.
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