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Old 05-25-2013, 08:38 AM   #4981
desmodab
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Please keep us posted Pampero - I am very curious about that unit...

Thx, DD
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Old 05-25-2013, 10:29 AM   #4982
Pampero
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Originally Posted by desmodab View Post
Please keep us posted Pampero - I am very curious about that unit...

Thx, DD
I will, sir. Initial reports are that like Skyhook, the system is subtle but effective. Ducati.ms has a long running thread detailing the initial findings of Swedish early adopters, but I'll post up here as well.
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:48 PM   #4983
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I will, sir. Initial reports are that like Skyhook, the system is subtle but effective. Ducati.ms has a long running thread detailing the initial findings of Swedish early adopters, but I'll post up here as well.
There's little that's "subtle" about Skyhook; it's as close to BMW's telelever as any conventional set of forks could be (the "no dive" under braking is sublime.....or weird....depending on how you adapt to it). There's a good back-to-back comparison of Skyhook vs (standard)Ohlins on the Multi done here:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...da-old-vs-new/

My guess is that, in the absence of any sensors and potentiometers, the Ohlins add-on ECU can only work off the data from the engine CPU. That would mean throttle position, speed, traction control and ABS activity.....and presumably the OHlins ECU will alter the damping to suit. Whether it can do this in the space of milliseconds (as Skyhook does), and without actually measuring any rate-of-change in suspension travel, will determine how effective it would be. From what I've read on the Ohlins system it should be (more correctly) termed an "adaptive" ECU, rather than any true active or semi-active.

Keep us posted on the changes.....interested to read of any genuine changes.
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:22 AM   #4984
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Keep us posted on the changes.....interested to read of any genuine changes.
Enjoy

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/216-2010...cu-coming.html
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:43 AM   #4985
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[QUOTE=deWog;21491514]There's little that's "subtle" about Skyhook; it's as close to BMW's telelever as any conventional set of forks could be (the "no dive" under braking is sublime.....or weird....depending on how you adapt to it). There's a good back-to-back comparison of Skyhook vs (standard)Ohlins on the Multi done here:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...da-old-vs-new/

QUOTE]

Two-up riding seems to be the major notable difference between the Skyhook and Ohlins bikes. It would be interesting to compare the two when the Ohlins model is fitted with a heavier rear spring, a common upgrade for those bikes.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:09 PM   #4986
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Originally Posted by deWog View Post
There's little that's "subtle" about Skyhook; it's as close to BMW's telelever as any conventional set of forks could be (the "no dive" under braking is sublime.....or weird....depending on how you adapt to it). There's a good back-to-back comparison of Skyhook vs (standard)Ohlins on the Multi done here:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...da-old-vs-new/

My guess is that, in the absence of any sensors and potentiometers, the Ohlins add-on ECU can only work off the data from the engine CPU. That would mean throttle position, speed, traction control and ABS activity.....and presumably the OHlins ECU will alter the damping to suit. Whether it can do this in the space of milliseconds (as Skyhook does), and without actually measuring any rate-of-change in suspension travel, will determine how effective it would be. From what I've read on the Ohlins system it should be (more correctly) termed an "adaptive" ECU, rather than any true active or semi-active.

Keep us posted on the changes.....interested to read of any genuine changes.
No dive???
My 13 Touring S has plenty of dive especially when compared to my GS with Wilber's. not even close.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:42 PM   #4987
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Quick question. When you boys picked up your Multis - did you get 2 rear huggers - one large and one small?
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:49 PM   #4988
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Quick question. When you boys picked up your Multis - did you get 2 rear huggers - one large and one small?
Yes. The smaller one was fitted when I picked up my bike, and they handed me the larger one, which I subsequently fitted as I often commute in the rain.
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:12 PM   #4989
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Nope, mine came with whatever was mounted on the bike...I don't know if its large or small. I didn't get the oft mentioned fender extender for the front either. Does anyone have pics of these items so I can tell what is actually on my bike?
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:43 PM   #4990
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Quick question. When you boys picked up your Multis - did you get 2 rear huggers - one large and one small?
The lower piece is the one I call the hugger which comes on many dual sport bikes, the bike only comes with one of those...the upper fender you get two pieces, a large and small size and you get a front fender extender also.
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:55 PM   #4991
deWog
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No dive???
My 13 Touring S has plenty of dive especially when compared to my GS with Wilber's. not even close.

It's all relative: If I were totally anal about it then yes, technically, both my 2012 GSA (Ohlins ESA) and 2013 Multi (Skyhook) exhibit "some" - slight - initial dive when I put on the hammers....but to all intents and purposes the dive is nothing like what i experience on my other bikes with conventional suspension.

At my weight (70kg) both my BMW and my Multi remain pretty well neutral under braking, so in my experience the Multi is as close to a telelever front end in feel as any conventional-fork bike I've ever ridden.

YMMV
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:10 PM   #4992
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Thanks.....read through most of it and didn't really get anything out of it that I didn't already suspect.....it will need someone to do a real back-to-back test (perhaps like MCN did) to quantify it. Either way the original Ohlins-shod Multis were terrific in the handling department, I'm not sure how significant the Ohlins "adaptive" ECU would improve the ride (if only incrementally).

From my experience the real benefit of Skyhook lies in ride quality and comfort; I doubt that, in actual handling of the bike, it performs any better than the Ohlins gear.....JMHO
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:11 PM   #4993
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Yes. The smaller one was fitted when I picked up my bike, and they handed me the larger one, which I subsequently fitted as I often commute in the rain.
Got both long and short, and for both front and rear wheels.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:58 PM   #4994
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Originally Posted by deWog View Post
There's little that's "subtle" about Skyhook; it's as close to BMW's telelever as any conventional set of forks could be (the "no dive" under braking is sublime.....or weird....depending on how you adapt to it).


Quote:
Two-up riding seems to be the major notable difference between the Skyhook and Ohlins bikes. It would be interesting to compare the two when the Ohlins model is fitted with a heavier rear spring, a common upgrade for those bikes.
I had the heavier springs fitted (front and rear) with the predictable result that front end dive was substantially reduced. I'm bigger than the MST is sprung for and it suffered significant dive when I first got it. That has been mitigated and could be further mitigated if I tuned the bike for brake dive only, but that's really only one dynamic aspect of the many at play, even though it is probably ......the least subtle.....for many of us, and of course, among the most unsettling especially when we're trail braking or if we brake late or hard entering a turn.


BMW can dial in as much or little dive as they want with the Telelever and opted years ago to keep just a bit to retain a "normal" feel. I always liked the way my GS worked in that regard. Riders old enough to have experience with the Earles forks/2 bikes will remember the strange feeling of having the front of the bike actually rise when applying brakes (and accelerating) as the bikes were always jacking themselves up at one end or another. Clearly that was something BMW didn't emulate with the TL set up.

In any case, a telescopic fork bike is going to have weight transfer and resultant nose dive (now mitigated to whatever extent by dynamic changes in the damping) that is not going to be exactly the same deal that BMW's system provides. BMW's geometry, not it's shock control, is the operative factor in respect to nose dive on Telelever equipped bikes. The two systems are really quite different in respect to how they accomplish that. Brake dive is but one quality under control of these adaptive systems. Were brake dive all there was to it, BMW would not have fitted the Sach's system to the wasserboxer; it would have been redundant.

I obviously tend to agree with Spartanman (and bigziff, though I have no skyhook seat time). When I said "subtle" I meant when riding moment to moment. And most reports suggest that most of the time, the system is transparent compared to the Ohlin's rig. I think transparency is a positive quality and feeling gross differences or changes in most of one's riding would, I think, be a negative and get old quickly.

A lot of what good these systems can do for us, I think (and I'm not alone in this), is give us a good set up in the first place. In a lot of ways, all I really need is one good set up per mode. I think that's what a lot of the comments here and elsewhere center on; getting a good set up in the first place, or whatever Ohlins thinks is a good set up. As to the missing accelerometers, sensors and the reaction time of the Ohlins stepper motors, I've heard different things about the new deal. Yesterday a tech at my dealership suggested that the range of adjustment would be widened with this box. The parts man told me that accelerometers are part of the box itself. That all sounds good to me, but I don't know exactly what is up.

I do know that I am glad Ohlins continues to develop the system and for $300, I'm in. It will be a success for me if this box helps refine the tune of my suspension and if it does so in real time, so much the better. I'll let you all know when I get it installed, and I'll be very surprised if mine is the first US report, as from what I hear, most of the initial deliveries are pre-sold.




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Pampero screwed with this post 05-26-2013 at 06:05 PM
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:31 PM   #4995
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..... BMW's geometry, not it's shock control, is the operative factor in respect to nose dive on Telelever equipped bikes. .......
.
yep - and hence my comparison of the way Skyhook behaves; it effectively mimmicks (electronically) what my GSA does (mechanicallly). And just like riders who first try out a telelever-sprung BMW, whether it's a welcome trait, or just plain unnerving, depends on how you adapt to it.

I like it.
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