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Old 04-12-2015, 08:42 AM   #1
s1lVa OP
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Enginerun without oil. The consequences?

Ive had a motor shipped overseas. To make a long story short, its been running for about 5 minutes without oil. Im thinking about opening the engine to make sure it doesnt stall on me during a race.

any mechanics out there who could tell me what to check and/or replace

its a wr450f 2013
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Old 04-12-2015, 09:17 AM   #2
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The assembly lube (assuming it had any) would have pretty well protected the moving bits from being damaged since it ran for a very short time. I'd just put oil in it and run. The alternative is a full teardown and inspection as if you were planning on rebuilding it. If the oil pump is easy to get to you might want to inspect it.

The local motorcycle club used to do a "Blow the Engine up" fundraiser every year. They would get an old car or motorcycle and drain the oil. You'd buy a raffle ticket with a time on it. If the engine blew at your time you'd win a prize of some sort. The engines would last anywhere from 40 minutes to a couple of hours before seizing.
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k-moe screwed with this post 04-12-2015 at 09:22 AM
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Old 04-12-2015, 09:35 AM   #3
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Were these engines idling or under use in the raffle?
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Old 04-12-2015, 10:10 AM   #4
s1lVa OP
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The engine was at idle and 2 mins of driving in walk pace.

Was run with oil before shipping so assembly lube wasnt present i think
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Old 04-12-2015, 10:43 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by s1lVa View Post
The engine was at idle and 2 mins of driving in walk pace.

Was run with oil before shipping so assembly lube wasnt present i think

I'd put oil in it and run it. but that's just me.
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Old 04-12-2015, 10:46 AM   #6
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add oil
run

If damaged it will become apparent real soon. If not it will be happy.

I'm willing to bet no damage done. Years ago I worked at a dealership and would watch tech drop a pan, order parts, drive the car out into the parking lot to free up the bay. Day or two later when the parts came in they would drive the car back into the bay and finish it. The pan never left the bench as it held all the bolts that were removed to drop the pan. It was an eye opener the first time I saw it. But multiple tech had been doing it that way for years and never had an issue.

Engines are amazingly tolerant of low/no oil. Look at a 2-stroke. Those are lubed there entire life with nothing more than a little hint of oil on the parts. Modern 2-strokes are running fuel oil ratios over 100-1 now.

So while there is that feeling that it is fubar, I've learned to not worry about it. The doom and gloom squad will quickly descend and demand a full rebuild as it had to of destroyed something
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Old 04-12-2015, 10:50 AM   #7
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There's definetly damaged, the only question is how bad and it will need to be taken apart to see the damage.

If it was idled for a short while you may have gotten lucky but there's probably damage to the bearings and will get worse in time.
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Old 04-12-2015, 11:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broncobowsher View Post
add oil
run

If damaged it will become apparent real soon. If not it will be happy.

I'm willing to bet no damage done. Years ago I worked at a dealership and would watch tech drop a pan, order parts, drive the car out into the parking lot to free up the bay. Day or two later when the parts came in they would drive the car back into the bay and finish it. The pan never left the bench as it held all the bolts that were removed to drop the pan. It was an eye opener the first time I saw it. But multiple tech had been doing it that way for years and never had an issue.

Engines are amazingly tolerant of low/no oil. Look at a 2-stroke. Those are lubed there entire life with nothing more than a little hint of oil on the parts. Modern 2-strokes are running fuel oil ratios over 100-1 now.

So while there is that feeling that it is fubar, I've learned to not worry about it. The doom and gloom squad will quickly descend and demand a full rebuild as it had to of destroyed something
If someone did that to my car he wouldn't be able to eat corn on the cob any more. The life span of the rod and crank bearings has been reduced by possibly a large amount. They need oil pressure to remain out of contact with the crank journals. Loading the bearing by driving it, no way. Idling for a short time, not so bad. Just because they got away with it doesn't mean that problems related to their incompetence didn't show up later. I've been a mechanic for 30 years and I have never heard of anyone doing that except to purposely wreck an engine.

A high performance four stroke single is all ball and roller bearings like a two stroke. Crank bearings, rod bearings, piston pin bearings, cam bearings, rocker arm bearings. The only sliding contact without a rolling element is between the cam lobes and the tappets. So, I wouldn't worry about it. Do it long enough under some load and I bet the piston would scuff first.

The early Husqvarna four strokes didn't have an oil pump. The bottom end was based on one of their two strokes and the top end used the cam chain and crankcase pressure to move the oil around.
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Old 04-12-2015, 11:55 AM   #9
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if I was worried, I would pull the caps off the cam journals & have a look. thats usually the last place to get oil & the first to show damage. as mentioned, the rod's roller bearing is probably fine

then fill with oil, pull the spark plug & spin the motor until you have oil pressure
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Old 04-12-2015, 05:06 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by acejones View Post
Were these engines idling or under use in the raffle?
They were running with the throttle about half open.
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Old 04-12-2015, 05:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Anorak View Post
If someone did that to my car he wouldn't be able to eat corn on the cob any more. The life span of the rod and crank bearings has been reduced by possibly a large amount. They need oil pressure to remain out of contact with the crank journals. Loading the bearing by driving it, no way. Idling for a short time, not so bad. Just because they got away with it doesn't mean that problems related to their incompetence didn't show up later. I've been a mechanic for 30 years and I have never heard of anyone doing that except to purposely wreck an engine.

A high performance four stroke single is all ball and roller bearings like a two stroke. Crank bearings, rod bearings, piston pin bearings, cam bearings, rocker arm bearings. The only sliding contact without a rolling element is between the cam lobes and the tappets. So, I wouldn't worry about it. Do it long enough under some load and I bet the piston would scuff first.

The early Husqvarna four strokes didn't have an oil pump. The bottom end was based on one of their two strokes and the top end used the cam chain and crankcase pressure to move the oil around.
I totally agree with you. I have been a mechanic for 45 years and never saw anyone run a motor without the pan on. Thats just nuts. I would never even think of doing anything like that. Oil pump, rod and main bearing damage doesn't take long without oil pressure.
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Old 04-13-2015, 05:49 PM   #12
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if I was worried, I would pull the caps off the cam journals & have a look. thats usually the last place to get oil & the first to show damage. as mentioned, the rod's roller bearing is probably fine

then fill with oil, pull the spark plug & spin the motor until you have oil pressure
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

+2 the top end is going to be first area have a problem....cam journals, cam lobes.

The WR has ball bearing crank and roller rod bearing they are very likely unharmed.
The cam journals are the aluminum head........likely trashed.

If the head is damaged.........running any more will send debris through the engine causing more damage.

http://www.procaliber.com/oemparts/a...b8a23/cylinder
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showkey screwed with this post 04-13-2015 at 07:11 PM
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Old 04-13-2015, 05:56 PM   #13
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Another for oil up and ride.
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Old 04-14-2015, 12:52 PM   #14
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Pull the cams. If the journals are fine, then so is everything else. Check the valve clearance while you're in there, just because.
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Old 04-14-2015, 01:26 PM   #15
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My 660 Raptor had the oil pump lock up about 100 yards from my shop. It was hot and running topped out. It was knocking when it pulled up to the door. It killed the piston and was starting to damage the center cam journal. I fixed a lot of things and the cam journal as it was the center one and the outside two didn't show any damage I used valve lapping compound to clean the middle one up and get the clearance right again. It runs with out any problem. If it's slick, the clearince is right and the oil pressure is there it will be fine. As stated the lower end is roller bearings and they hold oil in them to a degree. It would take alot of running and heat to cook them.
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