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Old 11-23-2009, 08:52 PM   #46
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
We're beating a dead horse with this stalling/charcoal canister nonsense here boys. It's been proven over and over that the cause is not the canister itself, rather the routing of the canister drain hose. Simply re-route the drain hose somewhere else where it won't pick up water and you're good to go. I guarantee it!
Griz:

I think there is one situation where rerouting the hose will not help.
If you were in an "extended" water crossing situation, (say crankcase deep water while you wait for your buddy to get their bike upright again ) then even if the hose is re-routed ... if the end of it is submerged you are gonna get screwed if it stays that way long enough.....

For street riders I think re-routing is fine, for serious off-roading, the "T" modification only takes a few minutes and is well worth the time IMHO....
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:15 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden
For street riders I think re-routing is fine, for serious off-roading, the "T" modification only takes a few minutes and is well worth the time IMHO....
Good point. But completely removing the entire system is pointless.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:48 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by The Griz
Good point. But completely removing the entire system is pointless.

Then why doesn't the rest of the world have a canister?
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:30 PM   #49
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All I know is that my bike wouldn't run properly and stall like crazy after 300 miles. I tried to reroute the hose... didn't work. I then took the entire canister out, and like magic, it ran perfect.

Just to try it out, I put the canister back in. It stalled like crazy once again. Took it back out and BAM!! Ran perfect.

I really think dropping the bike from time to time, riding hard off-road and shaking the canister up causes a lot of issues.

My wife has a 650GS Twin that pretty much stays on the street aside from a few hard packed dirt roads, and she never has an issues with the canister and the bike stalling.
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:33 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theproscloset
All I know is that my bike wouldn't run properly and stall like crazy after 300 miles. I tried to reroute the hose... didn't work. I then took the entire canister out, and like magic, it ran perfect.

Just to try it out, I put the canister back in. It stalled like crazy once again. Took it back out and BAM!! Ran perfect.

I really think dropping the bike from time to time, riding hard off-road and shaking the canister up causes a lot of issues.

My wife has a 650GS Twin that pretty much stays on the street aside from a few hard packed dirt roads, and she never has an issues with the canister and the bike stalling.
If you are having problems with the canister, you should get it fixed, not remove it. Take into the BMW dealership and tell them your experience with it. It may just be a bad canister. They'll fix it under warranty.
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:41 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackMule
Then why doesn't the rest of the world have a canister?
Well look who it is.....

Actually many cars around the world have had a charcoal canister (evaporative control system) since sometime in the early seventies. Europe and the US are on the forefront of requiring them on motorcycles now (about time). EPA and Euro III motorcycle standards. Simple.

Quote:
Gasoline evaporates quite easily. In the past, these evaporative emissions were vented into the atmosphere. 20% of all HC emissions from the automobile are from the gas tank. In 1970 legislation was passed, prohibiting venting of gas tank fumes into the atmosphere. An evaporative control system was developed to eliminate this source of pollution. The function of the fuel evaporative control system is to trap and store evaporative emissions from the gas tank and carburetor. A charcoal canister is used to trap the fuel vapors. The fuel vapors adhere to the charcoal, until the engine is started, and engine vacuum can be used to draw the vapors into the engine, so that they can be burned along with the fuel/air mixture. This system requires the use of a sealed gas tank filler cap. This cap is so important to the operation of the system, that a test of the cap is now being integrated into many state emission inspection programs. Pre-1970 cars released fuel vapors into the atmosphere through the use of a vented gas cap. Today with the use of sealed caps, redesigned gas tanks are used. The tank has to have the space for the vapors to collect so that they can then be vented to the charcoal canister. A purge valve is used to control the vapor flow into the engine. The purge valve is operated by engine vacuum. One common problem with this system is that the purge valve goes bad and engine vacuum draws fuel directly into the intake system. This enriches the fuel mixture and will foul the spark plugs. Most charcoal canisters have a filter that should be replaced periodically. This system should be checked when fuel mileage drops.
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:48 PM   #52
EnderTheX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Hey now, Californians are the nicest people I've ever met!

You should know there is an age old rivalry between Texas and California. We both think our states are the best and have stereotypes for the other. I wouldn't mind a few more mountains over here though...
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:51 PM   #53
The Griz
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Originally Posted by EnderTheX
You should know there is an age old rivalry between Texas and California. We both think our states are the best and have stereotypes for the other. I wouldn't mind a few more mountains over here though...
I wouldn't mind a freakin' hill or two in Minnesota!
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:17 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Well look who it is.....

Actually many cars around the world have had a charcoal canister (evaporative control system) since sometime in the early seventies. Europe and the US are on the forefront of requiring them on motorcycles now (about time). EPA and Euro III motorcycle standards. Simple.
Sorry, Griz.

I'm anti-canister.

Carbon (at least the pre-diamond variety) doesn't last forever and there are no maintenance intervals for renewing the charcoal ...ON ANY VEHICLE, 2 OR 4 WHEEL.

The canisters get removed from my motorcycles just about as soon as I get them home.
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:40 AM   #55
PackMule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Well look who it is.....


If you wanna play games, just let me know.

Quote:
Actually many cars around the world have had a charcoal canister (evaporative control system) since sometime in the early seventies. Europe and the US are on the forefront of requiring them on motorcycles now (about time). EPA and Euro III motorcycle standards. Simple.

Are all 800GS's delivered with canisters?
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:07 AM   #56
never.ride
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
If you are having problems with the canister, you should get it fixed, not remove it. Take into the BMW dealership and tell them your experience with it. It may just be a bad canister. They'll fix it under warranty.
The dealer in Lakewood CO said they could not replicate the problem. They said it was my fault for rev'ing the engine to start it and I messed up the computer. I had to rev it because it kept stalling when I started it. They said you can't give it gas when you start it as it messed with the internal CPU. They charged me to reset the adaptations and sent me on my way...... it stalled later that day when I was riding.

Back to the point of a new one. I actually bought a new OEM canister set up (cause the dealer wouldn't warranty it) and it was fine for 250 miles, just like my old one. Then, after doing the same type of riding, it started stalling.

I called the dealer and they were super unhelpful. I have since gone and seen Brad and the boys up at Norther CO BMW/Ducati and he is freaking' man and has they have never treated me like I was idiot as the Lakewood guys did. He was happy to hear about my experience with the Lakewood guys cause they own them!!

So, no canister for me, no issues. Just my experience, others obviously vary.....
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:47 AM   #57
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theproscloset
The dealer in Lakewood CO said they could not replicate the problem. They said it was my fault for rev'ing the engine to start it and I messed up the computer. I had to rev it because it kept stalling when I started it. They said you can't give it gas when you start it as it messed with the internal CPU. They charged me to reset the adaptations and sent me on my way...... it stalled later that day when I was riding.

Back to the point of a new one. I actually bought a new OEM canister set up (cause the dealer wouldn't warranty it) and it was fine for 250 miles, just like my old one. Then, after doing the same type of riding, it started stalling.

I called the dealer and they were super unhelpful. I have since gone and seen Brad and the boys up at Norther CO BMW/Ducati and he is freaking' man and has they have never treated me like I was idiot as the Lakewood guys did. He was happy to hear about my experience with the Lakewood guys cause they own them!!

So, no canister for me, no issues. Just my experience, others obviously vary.....
Sounds like you got a second faulty canister.

What you did makes sense though. When you're dealing with a bad dealer there's not much you can do but take it upon yourself. As much of a tree-hugging hippie as I am, I probably would have done the same in your position. I would, however, call BMW NA Customer Service and report the dealer.
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:53 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackMule


If you wanna play games, just let me know.



Quote:
Are all 800GS's delivered with canisters?
According to BMW they are, but I've heard claims on this forum that the Canadian models arrive without them. My theory is actually that Canadian dealers are removing them..... I was just researching the Environment Canada website, and their standards are as strict if not more strict than the EPA. On motorcycles too. Canisters are actually required in Canada.



Quote:
Regulations for On-Road Vehicles and Engines

Since 1971, the federal government has adopted increasingly stringent standards for smog-forming emissions from motor vehicles. The most recent emission regulations for new on-road vehicles and engines were published in the Canada Gazette, Part II, on January 1, 2003. The On-Road Vehicle and Engine Emission Regulations (full regulation) came into force on January 1, 2004. The Regulations align emission standards with the U.S. federal standards and apply to light-duty vehicles (e.g., passenger cars), light-duty trucks (e.g., vans, pickup trucks, sport utility vehicles), heavy-duty vehicles (e.g., trucks and buses), heavy-duty engines and motorcycles.
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:17 AM   #59
YetiGS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz




According to BMW they are, but I've heard claims on this forum that the Canadian models arrive without them. My theory is actually that Canadian dealers are removing them..... I was just researching the Environment Canada website, and their standards are as strict if not more strict than the EPA. On motorcycles too. Canisters are actually required in Canada.
Griz, you know I love ya, but you're wrong here.

Canada doesn't require them. In fact, no state except California requires them on motorcycles. It's just cheaper/more convenient for BMW (and some other manufacturers have followed suit) to make their bikes 50 state compliant.

For those who want to remove their canisters, I did a write up with pictures which you can check out HERE.


I did save my canister and all parts in case it ever becomes an issue. It can be re-installed in about 20 minutes.
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:26 AM   #60
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS
Griz, you know I love ya, but you're wrong here.

Canada doesn't require them. In fact, no state except California requires them on motorcycles. It's just cheaper/more convenient for BMW (and some other manufacturers have followed suit) to make their bikes 50 state compliant.

For those who want to remove their canisters, I did a write up with pictures which you can check out HERE.


I did save my canister and all parts in case it ever becomes an issue. It can be re-installed in about 20 minutes.
You're right. And I wasn't stating that anyone in particular actually requires them. Just sayin' that it's written in to the legistlation at the federal level (Canada & USA) as recommended, however, at the state/province level they can choose whether to enforce it or not. California seems to be the only one enforcing it.

Now Europe on the other hand: with the Euro III standard it's enforced (or supposed to be) in every country in the European Union.
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