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Old 11-24-2009, 09:38 AM   #61
Beartooth
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canisters

KTM 950's are shipped to the states with lots of canisters and emissions equipment. Weird things happen with the canisters left on such as vapor lock, flooding, and hard starting. I'd say that the canisters on the beemer are probably a similar design and that you should explore completly removing it. My ktm runs amazing with the emissions stuff removed. cheers.
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:01 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz



According to BMW they are, but I've heard claims on this forum that the Canadian models arrive without them. My theory is actually that Canadian dealers are removing them..... I was just researching the Environment Canada website, and their standards are as strict if not more strict than the EPA. On motorcycles too. Canisters are actually required in Canada.

In the Rep-ROM, only the US F800GS shows the canister. In the non-US documentation, that section is not there at all.
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Old 11-24-2009, 01:45 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackMule
In the Rep-ROM, only the US F800GS shows the canister. In the non-US documentation, that section is not there at all.
Odd...
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:05 AM   #64
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The Canister

This I know. My f800gs stalled in the rain with dire consequences. At the recommendation of BMW NA they disconnected some of the hoses going to the airbox since the canister would fill with water and vapor lock. The hoses remain in place... just hanging... disconnected?

If you over fill your fuel tank the overflow can ruin the canister causing the charcoal to clump together - a possible performance problem.

If you dump your bike and fuel gushes into the canister the engine will vapor lock (similar to my stalling in the rain issue). A canister filled with gasoline (or water) from overflow of ANY KIND could cause poor engine performance and stalling.

I am thinking of removing the weakest link in the airbox/canister/fuel tank system. And that would be the canister.

Brian
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:02 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solohvs

I am thinking of removing the weakest link in the airbox/canister/fuel tank system. And that would be the canister.

Brian
It's easy and cheap to do.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:47 PM   #66
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What is the BMW factory set up with no canister?

One thing I've never heard described is how the bike is set up at the factory with no canister. I presume there intake hose and crap is just not there at all, but how is the tank vented?
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Old 11-26-2009, 12:16 AM   #67
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Any European riders want to take a look....

We need one of our European partners to look behind the side panels and see where the hoses go.

It can't be THAT complicated. Like I said, BMW NA has a least one of the hoses going to the airbox on my f800gs disconnected. It's a "work in progress" for me. I don't like loosed ends and a more complete repair/resolution to stalling in the rain will come this spring when I plan to revisit the canister issue. Once and for all.

Brian
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Old 11-26-2009, 05:51 AM   #68
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+1 on that ...

My guess is that there would be some kind of a check-ball pressure release system on the tank vent line to allow fumes to be vented as needed but hopefully prevent a liquid fuel spill if the bike was down and that everything else would just be "gone" and the nipple at the intake manifold capped off.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:16 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden
+1 on that ...

My guess is that there would be some kind of a check-ball pressure release system on the tank vent line to allow fumes to be vented as needed but hopefully prevent a liquid fuel spill if the bike was down and that everything else would just be "gone" and the nipple at the intake manifold capped off.
You are sort of correct. There is a one-way check valve in the line. If you follow the line back from the tank, under the side panel, right before it makes the u-turn there is a break in the line with a connector there. That's the check valve.

It it supposed to stop fuel from coming out of the tank but allow air into the tank to vent it as fuel is used up.

As far as I (and others who have tested it) can tell it does not let vapors out of the tank though. I removed it to test it when I was removing my charcoal canister. You can blow air through the line towards the tank, but not away from the tank.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:31 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solohvs
We need one of our European partners to look behind the side panels and see where the hoses go.

It can't be THAT complicated. Like I said, BMW NA has a least one of the hoses going to the airbox on my f800gs disconnected. It's a "work in progress" for me. I don't like loosed ends and a more complete repair/resolution to stalling in the rain will come this spring when I plan to revisit the canister issue. Once and for all.

Brian
That's odd that you think European F800GS's don't have the evaporative control system. With how stringent Euro III standards are, it would seem that Europe would be the top area of the world to incorporate it. Are there any European F800GS owners out there that can chime in here and tell us if your bikes came with canisters? Honesty please.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:37 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
That's odd that you think European F800GS's don't have the evaporative control system. With how stringent Euro III standards are, it would seem that Europe would be the top area of the world to incorporate it. Are there any European F800GS owners out there that can chime in here and tell us if your bikes came with canisters? Honesty please.
The EURO and Federal (US) regulations focus on different pollutants. I can't recall which is which right now, but the differences are one of the primary reasons that the kewl euro-only bikes aren't easily brought over by the manufacturers. Think Trans-Alp and Tenere. The emission controls have to be redone for every model brought over. With Honda's relatively anal position on emission's testing, it gets kinda expensive.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:52 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS
It it supposed to stop fuel from coming out of the tank but allow air into the tank to vent it as fuel is used up.
The fuel valve is in the tank, on the little plug/door doohickey under that side panel.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:53 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS

It it supposed to stop fuel from coming out of the tank but allow air into the tank to vent it as fuel is used up.
So, the canister acts like an air filter for the fuel tank, it stops "bad" airborne things from entering the fuel tank as fuel is drawn down?

Yep, makes sense to remove it for an off-road bike.
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:29 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
The fuel valve is in the tank, on the little plug/door doohickey under that side panel.


I think we're talking about different things. There is a vacuum line that goes from the tank to the charcoal canister. There is a one-way valve in that line which allows air to flow into the tank but will not allow fuel out of the tank.

It's #21 on this fische. The hose (22) then goes to the charcoal canister:

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Old 11-26-2009, 10:32 AM   #75
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The fuel valve is #5. It's a pendulum that close off the vent in the event of a tipover. The valve in the hose is only for fumes/air.
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