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Old 11-26-2009, 03:30 PM   #91
Law Dawg (ret)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
The carbs suck up the stored vented vapor from the fuel tank.
Can you post a pic of where the canister hooks up to the carbs?

I live in Kalifornia (the land of our version of a C.A.R.B.) and the only reason my canister is hooked up is I just don't want to be fooled with by the C.A.R.B. Nazis. Were I sure that would never happen it would be in the trash where it belongs.

Natural seeps have been allowing hydrocarbons into the atmosphere long before the internal combustion engine or gasoline was even thought of. The smidge from our tanks adds up to not even a drop in the bucket. These seeps are all over California...like Santa Barbara off shore.
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:44 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law Dawg
The smidge from our tanks adds up to not even a drop in the bucket. These seeps are all over California...like Santa Barbara off shore.
True, natural seeps exist, but the type of gases that are seeping from them are no where near as harmful to the ozone layer as the millions of gas tanks evaporating gas in to the atmosphere. Seems that a lot of people (including you it seems) don't realize is how fragile our planet's ecosystem is. All it takes is a little bit of a really bad emission to push our ecosystem over the edge into a downward spiral. When you add all of our unnatural carbon emissions it creates a problem. I can't believe there are still people on this planet that don't "believe" that global warming is real, and that we're the cause. People like this are why we're never going to be able to fix our
doomed planet. These people won't allow it. :(
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Old 11-26-2009, 04:09 PM   #93
Law Dawg (ret)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
I can't believe there are still people on this planet that don't "believe" that global warming is real, and that we're the cause.
I'll give one answer and then return to my default Griz setting (ignore) because I have watched you perform on many a post here. Always said I would simply ignore...ah well, always have been a sucker for a good strawman premise.

To deny that things are warming is foolish (I agree with you...God help me). Your strawman arrives when you insinuate that those of us who doubt the enviro hype (consensus?), always packaged as you present the "argument", are nuts. Critical thinking being so 50s and all.

It has been real warm here before, that's why Wooly Mamoths are frozen (edit;as well as tropical to temperate plant life) intact in Siberia. I have never seen one of these alive and so assume it has been warm long before gasoline vapors escaped my evil bikes tank. I simply doubt the canister is anything more than a placebo for folk like you (unless European gasoline has no evil hydrocarbons) and a pain in the keester for those of us who like to make folk prove stuff before they foist it on us.

That said...buh buy Griz this is simply mental masturbation anyway.
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Law Dawg (ret) screwed with this post 11-27-2009 at 12:01 PM
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Old 11-26-2009, 04:28 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
You are correct.... kind of. It doesn't punt the vapor back into the fuel tank. The carbs suck up the stored vented vapor from the fuel tank. The one-way check valve is positioned to allow vapor to pass out from the tank to the canister. The charcoal in the canister then holds the fuel vapors while the engine is not in use. When the engine is then running again, the small suction from the carbs pull the stored vapors from canister and burns them in the engine along with everything else.
That's essentially what I meant. I don't think I said it punts back to the fuel tank.

Carbs? You have a carburetted version?
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Old 11-26-2009, 04:38 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sturgeon
That's essentially what I meant. I don't think I said it punts back to the fuel tank.

Carbs? You have a carburetted version?
Err... Throttle bodies. Sorry, I'm used to my KLR's still I guess!
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Old 11-26-2009, 04:43 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law Dawg
Can you post a pic of where the canister hooks up to the carbs?
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Old 11-26-2009, 04:50 PM   #97
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law Dawg
...God help me.
Says it all....

Quote:
It has been real warm here before, that's why Wooly Mamoths are frozen intact in Siberia.
No, they're frozen in Siberia because they walked to Siberia and froze. It's cold in Siberia. Cold enough to freeze a Wooly Mammoth! But why Wooly Mammoths froze in Siberia is pure speculation. The reason our planet is warming higher than ever before is not.

Quote:
I simply doubt the canister is anything more than a placebo for folk like you (unless European gasoline has no evil hydrocarbons) and a pain in the keester for those of us who like to make folk prove stuff before they foist it on us.
Wrong again. The scientific community agrees: the evaporation of gasoline into the atmosphere is the most harmful form of carbon emission on our thinning ozone layer. For you to say that the evaporative control systems on cars and motorcycles are useless is naive. I can tell you from personal experience that when I removed my canister to test the effects, I smelled gasoline fumes around my bike on a regular basis due to the tank directly venting to the outside. With this system intact, I smell no vented fumes from the gas tank on or around this bike. I feel good knowing that I'm not allowing these gases to vent into the atmosphere, and that they're being burned up in the combustion chamber along with everything else.

Quote:
That said...Griz this is simply mental masturbation anyway.
Agreed.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/10/us...on-factor.html
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The Griz screwed with this post 11-26-2009 at 05:20 PM
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Old 11-26-2009, 05:30 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
You'll have to explain that to me smarty-pants.
It's difficult to explain something to someone unwilling to listen.

You said something incorrect, I corrected it. It happens all the time. That's just the way it is. No need to backpedal.
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Old 11-26-2009, 05:30 PM   #99
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sturgeon
That is actually a picture of the Purge Flow Sensor. A hose comes from the canister and then goes to the Purge Flow Valve shown in this picture, then from there to the Throttle Bodies (Carbs).
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The Griz screwed with this post 11-26-2009 at 05:46 PM
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Old 11-26-2009, 05:39 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxr140
It's difficult to explain something to someone unwilling to listen.

You said something incorrect, I corrected it. It happens all the time. That's just the way it is. No need to backpedal.
Nah, I'm willing to listen, pal. But you're one of the pushiest know it all fellas on this board. If there's anyone not willing to listen to what others have to say, it's you. Again, I'm trying to help people. You seem to want to use this board only for your entertainment to try to get under people's skin.

And where is this alleged correction of yours? And what exactly was I wrong about? If you can't produce the evidence then BTFO. Happy Thanksgiving.
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The Griz screwed with this post 11-26-2009 at 05:52 PM
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:35 PM   #101
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Don't get all bent man. You don't need to keep arguing like you usually do.
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Old 11-27-2009, 05:35 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
That is actually a picture of the Purge Flow Sensor. A hose comes from the canister and then goes to the Purge Flow Valve shown in this picture, then from there to the Throttle Bodies (Carbs).
Right. Does BMW know you've renamed it? They call it (item 3 in the diagram) the regeneration valve for the activated charcoal filter.
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Old 11-27-2009, 05:46 AM   #103
solohvs
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Canister

When stalling in the rain was a problem on my bike the canister would fill with WATER and vapor lock the fuel delivery. The BMW mechanic asked if the cap to the fuel tank hissssed when I went to refuel - as in negative pressure. The bike stalled before I ever got to travel that far.

I have a hose that runs to the "regeneration valve" on the airbox that was simply diconnected - and still hanging there. That was the extent to which repair/resolution was made. If my canister is NOT returning fumes to the airbox I may as well remove the canister.... it may store the fumes, but it no longer returns them in a closed system.

However, I will ask when my next service is due.

Brian
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:04 AM   #104
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I've seen gas tanks where the vent was clogged and the fuel pump as it emptied the tank, and as no air could come in, the vacuum generated actually bent the fuel tank. Like when we vacuum seal stuff. A simple law of physics, Griz.

But then again, you were the person who believed everything your BMW dealer rep tells you. Remember the case of the stalling under heavy rain? Or even recently, when they told you that the F800GS 2010 models had no changes from the 2009, that even the colors would remain the same? And you suggested the orange and white schemes we were seeing were photoshopped. So, at times, it makes it difficult for me (and I realize others) to follow your rational, Griz.

Now, I do believe we, humans, have *some* level of responsibility in the acceleration of global warming. And the ozone layer example appears to be verifiable. That it was being depleted and we, humans, in the 80's took action and changed things around via legislation that prohibited the use of certain chemical elements as "power" for spray cans and for refrigeration. And the ozone depletion process has reversed some. Not without having left behind lots of damage, especially skin cancer on people living in the south hemisphere, above where the ozone "hole" was the largest.

But I'm not so sure how much damage are we creating, and how much of it is our (humans) own making. I even have heard that the earth was supposed to be on a cooling trend schedule (by its natural cycles), but that instead it is warming up. If that were true, it points to us as actually really guilty as charged. But it is all speculation at this time (on the specific of the latter argument of the cooling trend). I do believe when we don't know, that it doesn't mean we should ignore. I think we should care about where we live. If not for us, on our generation, for the people that will follow us. But I won't state anything as a concrete, black and white knowledge today, because like I said, we are still learning about all of this. Or should I say we should not make orange and white statements?

So it would be nice if we cooled it. The conversation, I mean, with pun intended.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Lion


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Nah, it's only one way man. Look at the diagrams. The system only pulls in extra or overflow vapor. Meaning the check valve only open towards the canister when there's a need for extra vapor to exit the tank. The vacuum within the system is low enough to not constantly be pulling on the tank unless there's extra vapor to be pulled.

It's one way. No sense arguing, it's just the way it is. And it's not just me making it up bxr. It's how the systems are designed. No deep thinking necessary bxr!

Lion BR screwed with this post 11-27-2009 at 06:15 AM
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:21 AM   #105
YetiGS
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From my hands on checking out of the bike, Sturgeon is most correct here. I made this drawing as I was pulling everything off my bike so I could figure out how it worked and to be able to put it back together if I wanted.



Here is the parts fische for the canister:



And here is the gas tank parts fische:




I'll explain in my next post, I need to be able to refer back to these pictures and I'm on my phone so I can't see the imiages until they're posted.
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