ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > Parallel Universe
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-27-2008, 04:29 PM   #16
tmex
Beastly Adventurer
 
tmex's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: NorCal
Oddometer: 2,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac444
OK then I would agree except for the 990 comparison. I own both and have to say the GS800 feels lighter and handles quicker but the suspension on the KTM makes up for that off road because it is so much more stable and plush.

Dont get bent. Its all good
The telelever on the 1200GS ibetter than the Zokes on my HP2 IMO (which are adjustable BTW). I have not had enough time off road on my 800GS, but the short distance (about 25 miles) I have taken it makes me think it will be an HP2 clone as far as the forks are concerned - not good. I have no snivels with the 800GS shock performance, but I do have a wide range of acceptability outback relative to the forks. I did have to ditch the airshock on the HP2 for a Wilbers - much better.
__________________
my favorite bike - R1200GS
tmex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 04:09 PM   #17
earthroamer
Stuck in Pindadesh
 
earthroamer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: SoCal
Oddometer: 2,045
I'm curious if any of you F800GS owners have been on rough road with a fully loaded bike, panniers, camping gear, etc. ? Was just wondering if the suspension was set up for adv touring instead of just dirt riding.
__________________
Jim
06 F650GS
I wanna ride
earthroamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 04:17 PM   #18
TheCowboy
back in the saddle again
 
TheCowboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: The frozen tundra - Minny Sota
Oddometer: 605
I've taken my F800GS fully loaded on some pretty rough dirt roads. I got to admit the suspension was a little harsh compared to my DR650. But I still love this bike anyway, it ain't no motocross bike - but she's a damm good adventure bike in my humble opinion.

Cowboy2
TheCowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 06:58 PM   #19
tmex
Beastly Adventurer
 
tmex's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: NorCal
Oddometer: 2,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy2
I've taken my F800GS fully loaded on some pretty rough dirt roads. I got to admit the suspension was a little harsh compared to my DR650. But I still love this bike anyway, it ain't no motocross bike - but she's a damm good adventure bike in my humble opinion.

Cowboy2
I respect that to be sure, but I would not put my 8GS in the same genre as my 12GS as a true "adventure bike". The 12GS pretty much hits the mark for the adventuring touring category, and is much more comfortable than the 8GS in that role. I regard the 8GS as more of a "weekender". I love the 8GS, and would gladly take it places where I would be very fearful of threading with the bigger bike, but this probably is a reflection on my riding skill more than on any intrinsic shortcomings of the 12GS.

Back on topic. I do think the front suspension of my 8GS will need some work before I am happy with it. The performance on sharp edged hits is not at all to my liking. It is fixable for me, and maybe it is OK for others as is. I do love the motorcycle (but I can say that about all my bikes).
__________________
my favorite bike - R1200GS
tmex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 12:27 PM   #20
JNRobert
Breaking Wind
 
JNRobert's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Bay Area, California
Oddometer: 9,549
IMHO, BMW seem to be setting up their forks with high speed compression way off (and most fork adjusters won't change this). Even on the pavement the F800GS I rode was deflecting off sharp edges (the F800S does this too).

I think its a travesty that they don't offer adjustable forks but my guess is even if they did, it would still be a harsh fork unless they fix the inherent problem with the valving.

I also agree that every KTM I've ridden has way better suspension from the get go.
JNRobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 01:06 PM   #21
huckleberry
BACK ROAD BOMBER
 
huckleberry's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: N.E. Pa.
Oddometer: 1,106
i know the boingers on my 650 didn't break in till about the 2500 mi mark thats probably 2/3 road the rest dirt road and trail ----have you given your bike enough time to break-in the suspension?
__________________
“An adventure is misery and discomfort, relived in the safety of reminiscence.” Marco Polo
09 F 650 GS twin
XR 400
Beta Techno
huckleberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 05:32 PM   #22
Bluebull2007
Adventurer
 
Bluebull2007's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Lima, Perú
Oddometer: 4,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac444
I never said te F800GS was "poor quality". What I said was the forks and shock suck. There is a difference. For 12 grand, a little rebound and compression adjustment is not too much to ask. You name one bike in this price range that doesnt have fully adjustable suspension....or dont you adjust stuff down there in Peru ?
As I said, I´ll take your bike if you wanna sell it.
Bluebull2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 07:08 PM   #23
Hair
Outside the boxer
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Northern New Mexico
Oddometer: 13,402
There are several shops that would love to take a go at fixing your 800 forks. Honestly I don't even think that stock setups on any off road bike will be right from the factory.

Maybe send it in and try that. The 800 should have some value. After all there are plenty of clients who really want that BMW experience. I know that I think very highly of the brand even though I don't own any right now.

I say try to fix the problem and give the bike a try.
__________________
My problem with Siri is that she is always on the phone.
Hair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 03:28 PM   #24
itsatdm
Beastly Adventurer
 
itsatdm's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Nor Ca.
Oddometer: 4,542
I agree that the F800 suspension is not appropriately valved for what I envisioned as its purpose. It even felt harsh on bumpy paved roads, so I am not sure what the bikes purpose is.
So I asked BMWNA via email. Their response translated was: : "thanks for your imput, we make good products, you bought it, you own it" .
These forks apparently are the same as those on 2008 Huskey 610's and there are people out there that do revalve them. Here is one, that will give a BMW a try and even add adjusters if wanted: bmxerhs@yahoo.com
In the mean time, I have been playing with springs, oil viscosity, air gap and came up with a combination that is much better than stock. Not plush by dirt bike standards, but better.
5 weight oil, I used Honda only because it was available. 70mm air gap.
I also used a Hyperpro spring, but do not think it is necessary. And because I am doing a lot of dirt, a TKC front tire. The tire does have a taller sidewall which probably contributes to the improvement, though I ran it ai street pressure. As an added bonus the plastic Klac noise went away.
Put some road and offroad miles on it and haven't found any negatives, so keeping my fingers crossed.

itsatdm screwed with this post 10-31-2008 at 08:54 PM
itsatdm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 03:43 PM   #25
jessehere
Ridin'
 
jessehere's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Jersey(EXIT 10)
Oddometer: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm
I. As an added bonus the plastic Klac noise went away.
Put some road and offroad miles on it and haven't found any negatives, so keeping my fingers crossed.
What do you think makes the Klack noise?
I thought it was the floating brake rotors.
jessehere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 08:53 PM   #26
itsatdm
Beastly Adventurer
 
itsatdm's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Nor Ca.
Oddometer: 4,542
I don't know the source of the noise, but I don't think it is the brake rotors. There is a lot of plastic around the front end of the bike, plus a plastic spacer and spring guide inside the fork. I only noticed it on hard impacts on the suspension and they seemed to go away with the melllowing out of those impacts.
itsatdm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2008, 02:52 AM   #27
michnus
Vagabond, yes I try!
 
michnus's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa
Oddometer: 1,095
I can't call myself a good rider, and with spending time here, I get more confused with what is exactly a good set up for a dual purpose bike, so please, help me out here. Trying to make sense of all the info.

Max444 said the GS8 have poor suspension, now compared to what? Is it poor for the average dual sport bike, or is it just plain poor rubbish, qualify it a bit more please?

I thought a good dual sport bike, especially the bigger models, like the GS8/950/990/1200GSA and so on, had to make a good compromise between road and dirt, some you win, some you loose but that's part of the game. So having the bike perform like a 250EXC it aint gonna do.

Bear in mind some people might like a bit a tweeking for their personal taste, but when BMW or KTM or who ever design the bike they must try to build a bike that will suit thousands of customers, so I can understand the difficulty.

Then, people use words to describe dirt roads as off-road,back roads, rocky parts, single tracks. When using these words I have no idea what it actually looks like where they ride, maybe post a picture where you ride, where the bikes suspension can't handle. I need to figure out who's just bitching and who actually know what they talking about. Some guys rocky up hill is another man's highway.

I also read plenty of threads in OC and my impression is 95% of people with the 950/990's don't have the slightest clue what suspension set up is, and can't change it anyway. So maybe that's why BMW went that route.

Donno, please correct me where wrong.
michnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2008, 09:37 AM   #28
itsatdm
Beastly Adventurer
 
itsatdm's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Nor Ca.
Oddometer: 4,542
I will take a stab at this from my point of view. I have posted pics on another thread on the same subject http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391785.
My intended use for the 800 was to be able to travel dirt roads irrespective of their condition. Where I live, there are thousands of miles of dirt rds along the Western front of the Sierra, that were previously used for logging, mining, forest maintenance and water projects. Many are in a state of arrested decay for a variety of reasons. There are also many paved 1 and 2 lane roads, some date from the gold mining, era that are more patch than road.
For this type of travel, the suspension should be supple enough to soak up the rocks, potholes, berms, and washouts, yet firm enough not to bottom out, and still offer enough control that the tire maintains contact with the rd.
For strafing smooth curvy rds, typically the bike is set up tauter, with heavier springs and valving with shorter travel needed.
Most bike of this sorts (most bikes in this price range period) have adjustments that allow the owner, within limits, to soften or harden the suspension to suit their needs, carrying weight and riding style.
The 800 has no front end adjustment and the valving is set up at the hard end of the scale. The valving is overly firm, totally unsuited for offroad use and marginaly suitable for a typical California rd with its tar strips and potholes. The hard suspension also exerbates a very sensitive throttle which causes unintended imputs often at unsuitable moments.
The Marzocchi forks used on the 800 are built with quality components, have large tubes and would have been perfectly suited for a bike that appears aimed at enduro type riding, if it had been valved correctly and should have had adjustments so the owner could adjust it to his or her needs.
The bike has a lot to like, and the suspension shortcomings can be fixed with $. My personal opinion, is that BMW marketed the image of an adventure bike, but thought that most of their customers would never take it off pavement and valved it accordingly. They also managed to save a few bucks in the process.
itsatdm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2008, 01:37 PM   #29
Zapp22
ZAPP - Tejas
 
Zapp22's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Tejas Hill Country
Oddometer: 13,653
I'm sure I'm missing something in the discussion but I'll ask:
Is there some reason why an owner cannot remove the springs and replace with lighter springs, and change the fork oil to something very light?
this WILL make a huge diff.... whether or not its a GOOD fix, I dunno, but .... are the forks permanently sealed or something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm
I will take a stab at this from my point of view. I have posted pics on another thread on the same subject http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391785.
My intended use for the 800 was to be able to travel dirt roads irrespective of their condition. Where I live, there are thousands of miles of dirt rds along the Western front of the Sierra, that were previously used for logging, mining, forest maintenance and water projects. Many are in a state of arrested decay for a variety of reasons. There are also many paved 1 and 2 lane roads, some date from the gold mining, era that are more patch than road.
For this type of travel, the suspension should be supple enough to soak up the rocks, potholes, berms, and washouts, yet firm enough not to bottom out, and still offer enough control that the tire maintains contact with the rd.
For strafing smooth curvy rds, typically the bike is set up tauter, with heavier springs and valving with shorter travel needed.
Most bike of this sorts (most bikes in this price range period) have adjustments that allow the owner, within limits, to soften or harden the suspension to suit their needs, carrying weight and riding style.
The 800 has no front end adjustment and the valving is set up at the hard end of the scale. The valving is overly firm, totally unsuited for offroad use and marginaly suitable for a typical California rd with its tar strips and potholes. The hard suspension also exerbates a very sensitive throttle which causes unintended imputs often at unsuitable moments.
The Marzocchi forks used on the 800 are built with quality components, have large tubes and would have been perfectly suited for a bike that appears aimed at enduro type riding, if it had been valved correctly and should have had adjustments so the owner could adjust it to his or her needs.
The bike has a lot to like, and the suspension shortcomings can be fixed with $. My personal opinion, is that BMW marketed the image of an adventure bike, but thought that most of their customers would never take it off pavement and valved it accordingly. They also managed to save a few bucks in the process.
__________________
Zapp
"I will not let the White City fall... nor our people fail.” - Aragorn
K4 WEESTROM Stealthfighter Black -SOLD - Invisible to Radar, '02 DR650SE SOLD ,'Ole 97' DR650SE My Fave K5 WEESTROM ADVbomber
Zapp22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2008, 02:03 PM   #30
MonsterJ
I have motopsychosis
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Oddometer: 262
Itsatdm... any thoughts on 2.5wt fork oil instead of the 5wt? You said what you did made it better.... how much better? On a 1-10 scale of harshness I'd say the stock forks are a solid 8. Your set up? I took my bike down a powerline trail today and I've decided something's gotta be done...
MonsterJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014