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Old 02-20-2009, 05:42 PM   #76
JDRadman
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Laugh

Sorry/happy to hear about your seal. I agree that is a protest because she is on to you. She just doesn't know how good its going to be.

We have all of the engineering is done but we lost the machine time on Sat to a real job that pays the bills. We are trying to reschedule for either Sunday or early in the week.

I will post as soon as I know more.

Rad
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Old 02-20-2009, 07:14 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRadman
Sorry/happy to hear about your seal. I agree that is a protest because she is on to you. She just doesn't know how good its going to be.

We have all of the engineering is done but we lost the machine time on Sat to a real job that pays the bills. We are trying to reschedule for either Sunday or early in the week.

I will post as soon as I know more.

Rad
No worries Rad. I just thought is was funny she puked on me today. It was so sad- blood, er, fork oil dripping down her leg. Matched the blood flowing down my shin. AGATT, except shin guards... Gonna throw on my 661's I wear on my bicycle next time I go to the rock gardens.

Good to get on trails in Feb. non the less.

Matto
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Old 02-20-2009, 07:14 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by JDRadman
Notmybike...,
Cool deal, sounds like you got it done.

I am interested in how the bike handled with those spring rates.
RaceTech's site says the Dakar's stock rate is in the .62 range but I can’t get that verified. RaceTech recommend a .83 rate on the Dakar with my street weight of 160 lbs. So the .48 springs are about half of what they recommended.

While most of us will be riding on a lot less aggressive terrain on the 650 than we would on a YZ, we are still doubling the weight of the bike (low 200lbs to low 400lbs) that is riding on the same springs.

Did you use the stock or supermoto aftermarket brake/rotor?
The BMW OEM brakes are 300mm X 5mm thick disk and the YZ OEM disk is 250mm X 3mm thick. The YZ caliper pistons are about 20/22mm and the BMW pistons are 30/32mm but I am not sure about the differences in the master cyl. I think we would be giving up significant stopping power especially when repeatedly stopping from highway speeds like in the twisties. That may not be in issue at lower speeds in the dirt.

And what kind of Beer would be good to know too...

I think I will end up at about $900 bucks in my forks but far shy of the TT $3,000 set up. When I am done, we will loose 1" travel/length to cut down on the "chopper" setup, have progressive wound - .83ish springs in front, new seals wipers and valving, stock brakes, stock wheel, new caliper hanger, new brake line and new SS axle. I may get the stock rim upgraded to make it stronger too.

The back shock is getting re-worked as we speak. Spring rate will be up about 20% and progressive wound for compliance on the street. It will also raise the rear-end a bit. This and slipping the forks deeper in the triples will help get the geometry back in check.

Overall, I will drop less than a $1,100 into the bikes suspension and I hope I am as happy with it as you are with yours.

I blame my buddy Quinn for all of this excessive spending. He bought a new 800GS last month. I didn’t want to drop the cash on a new bike but I just couldn’t sit still for that. So I had to upgrade…

Rad
Jim,

I'm doing a 300+ mile ride tomorrow to break it in. I still want the BMW brake setup. So don't count me out. I think .83 is way too aggressive. I took mine for a pretty fast and rutty ride today. I have the .48's and had to take 6 clicks off the preload. It was borderline too stiff. I used the stock yz front brake set up and it's pretty good. I ride mostly dirt so I don't use alot of front anyways.

I'll get some pics and give a ride report tomorrow. Riding out through the local mountains to the high desert (Randsburg, El PAso Mountains, and back) 78 miles street, the balance dirt.
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Old 02-20-2009, 07:17 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by notmybikemodelname
Jim,

I'm doing a 300+ mile ride tomorrow to break it in. I still want the BMW brake setup. So don't count me out. I think .83 is way too aggressive. I took mine for a pretty fast and rutty ride today. I have the .48's and had to take 6 clicks off the preload. It was borderline too stiff. I used the stock yz front brake set up and it's pretty good. I ride mostly dirt so I don't use alot of front anyways.

I'll get some pics and give a ride report tomorrow. Riding out through the local mountains to the high desert (Randsburg, El PAso Mountains, and back) 78 miles street, the balance dirt.
Nice, look forward to a ride report and what you think of those springs.

What wt. fork oil are you running?

Matto
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Old 02-20-2009, 07:21 PM   #80
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Sounds great...cant wait to hear the rest of the story...
Have a great ride

Rad


Quote:
Originally Posted by notmybikemodelname
Jim,

I'm doing a 300+ mile ride tomorrow to break it in. I still want the BMW brake setup. So don't count me out. I think .83 is way too aggressive. I took mine for a pretty fast and rutty ride today. I have the .48's and had to take 6 clicks off the preload. It was borderline too stiff. I used the stock yz front brake set up and it's pretty good. I ride mostly dirt so I don't use alot of front anyways.

I'll get some pics and give a ride report tomorrow. Riding out through the local mountains to the high desert (Randsburg, El PAso Mountains, and back) 78 miles street, the balance dirt.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:20 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRadman
Sounds great...cant wait to hear the rest of the story...
Have a great ride

Rad
I can definitely say that anything over .52 is way too stiff. I weigh 180, and ride very aggressively (I came off of a Husky TC450).
Jim, I see where you came up with the .8? spring rate. That is for BMW Dakars, which have a shorter travel than a YZ. So they need stiffer springs to keep them from bottoming out. The YZ forks have 3" more travel so you can use a much softer spring before you use the full suspension. If you put .8's on your bike, it will ride just as stiff as it did before and you'll never use the full suspension. Go to the Racetech site and instead of using the BMW Dakar spring rates, go the the YZ spring rates and add the difference of the weight between your bike and the YZ + your weight. When I add 110lbs to my wieght to account for the difference between my bike and the YZ, the highest rated spring it says to use is a .52.

I was riding with some very good riders yesterday on KTM 640's, 690's, 950 SE's, 990's, Honda CRF's, DRZ650, and XR 400's.
I was leading this ride through the Mojave desert. THere was about 18 of us overall, and no one ever complained that I was too slow. I actually found myself waiting for the group for up to five minutes sometime.

Ride reports from yesterday
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...418596&page=28
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...07#post9128707

Initial riding reaction (the good stuff):
HOLY SHIT! This was the best $350+ I ever spent..........hands down. I can now ride over whoops like I was on a REAL dirtbike. Even with .48's, I never bottomed out. Whoops and rutty roads that I had to ride slow over before I was hitting at 50-60mph, and the control was incredible. Sandy washes are way more controllable.

The Bad stuff:
I now have to spend about $900 to upgrade my rear suspension. I think Ohlin's. I'll get another 1" of height/ground clearance and 1.5" of sag.

Just a quick quote from a guy on a 2008 KLX 250:

Quote:
Originally Posted by punkenduro
then god damn rob (notmybikemodelname) almost killed me and probally a few othere riders too. after following this guy for a good hour or so, i could totally tell this guy was a damn good rider, so im fallow him doing 70 down a power line road (this thing was going for miles along the 395 and we're making god time at this speed) and he starts to pull away so i fall his tracks....
This is how I started my day, with abeer of course at 0640.


This happened due to speed being much faster than before, but my rear suspension not liking it. Bottomed out on a jump and sucked my backpack, which was strapped down to my seat, into my rear tire, spitting beers out at the guy behind me.


Some of the beautiful Mojave desert we were riding in.


A map of where we rode



TO everyone who's thinking about doing this. YES!
It will make you love your Dakar all over again. Kind of like getting your wife a tit job....then you'll need the butt lift
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Old 02-22-2009, 04:13 PM   #82
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A couple of final notes and a question for Skibum:

I have absolutely no reason to change my springs to a stiffer rate. I'm running the .48's and after about an hour of riding yesterday I took another 2 clicks off my dampening for a total of 8. I was hitting shit that was 1-2 feet deep and spaced perfectly for a wipe out if I was on my regular Dakar set up. I was walking this stuff at 50-60mph and passing guys on CRF 450's, KTM 690's and little KLX 250/300's.

Jim, as you can see in the pic, I prefer Tecate .

No problems with the stock YZ brake in the dirt, but I might've used only once or twice . I can see that when riding on the street, a little more braking power might be useful.

Skibum, what fork springs did you use? Please chime in because I would hate for anyone to buy a spring that was just going to ruin there suspension and all they had hoped to gain from the effort and money.
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:21 PM   #83
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Awesome report. Thanks for the update. I like the Tecate roost. If your going to roost your buddy, why not roost em in Tecate...you da man.

Interesting thoughts about the spring rates and a great idea to look at the YZ + the extra weight. That is really more relevant than the Dakar reference.

I don't think that Skibum had data on his spring rates. Just word of mouth from the guy that sold him the forks...maybe he has an update because it would be good to know.

I am interested to see what is recommended by my buddy at House of Horsepower. I still like the idea of a progressive rate spring because of the variation in weight between wife and no-wife and the 40% on-road that I will be doing.

Thanks for the most excellent feed back Rob. I will keep you posted of the caliper/axle developments.

Rad
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:33 PM   #84
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Hey Rad, i've been contemplating this mod for a while now and have been following this thread with great attention.

I want to keep my OEM wheel and caliper as well, so I would be very interested in your caliper hanger and axle if possible, hopefully i'm not too late, let me know.

And to throw something else in the pot: any of you guys have ABS? That's another one of my issues that i'm still not sure how to tackle, that ABS sensor thingy and how to mount it to the YZ forks. Any ideas?
I'm thinking some kind of bracket clamped to the bottom of the leg or to the axle (I think that's what Touratech did).

Cheers
Pierre
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:10 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Aries71
Hey Rad, i've been contemplating this mod for a while now and have been following this thread with great attention.

I want to keep my OEM wheel and caliper as well, so I would be very interested in your caliper hanger and axle if possible, hopefully i'm not too late, let me know.

And to throw something else in the pot: any of you guys have ABS? That's another one of my issues that i'm still not sure how to tackle, that ABS sensor thingy and how to mount it to the YZ forks. Any ideas?
I'm thinking some kind of bracket clamped to the bottom of the leg or to the axle (I think that's what Touratech did).

Cheers
Pierre
Yes, do what I did and was the second best thing I ever did to my bike. Take a pair of wire cutters and cut the wires at the pump, then disconnect all fo the lines and throw it in the trash. That's wher it belongs.
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:10 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by notmybikemodelname
Yes, do what I did and was the second best thing I ever did to my bike. Take a pair of wire cutters and cut the wires at the pump, then disconnect all fo the lines and throw it in the trash. That's wher it belongs.
NOTMY... has a point, on the other hand, if you would like to keep the ABS... for your on-road adventures? There are tons of attach points on the bottoms of the forks for guards and that funky brake line routing thing that Yamaha does. It should be easy to fabricate something that was well integrated and protected.

I don's have ABS and it is too late to incorporate it into the caliper hanger. But it isn't too late to get in on the build. Once we prototype and make sure it will all fit/work as planned we can easily run a few more. I will add your name to the list.

I hope to get machine time this week.

Rad
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:04 AM   #87
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CUT it all out!!! AH AH that's funny !!!! That would be the easy way for sure, but I use the bike for commuting also and I must admit that ABS saved my ass a couple times (hot blonds in tight shorts are very distracting coming around a corner!!) I ride in the rain too and it did come in handy there also... or maybe I just have to slow down pay attention to what I'm doing LOL!!!.

Thanks for letting me in on the buy Rad, very appreciated.

NOTMY...How high did it make your bike? Is it comparable to a stock Dakar? Bit higher I imagine. Since i'll be using the bike as a all rounder height is definitely a consideration (i'd hate to fall over at a stop light LOL!!)

Cheers
Pierre
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:55 AM   #88
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Aries 71,
Here is the raw data on the forks. GS = 35" and the YZ = 37" long. On my bike I am reducing the length by 1" (travel too). I have increased the spring rate on the shock and this should allow the bike to ride higher in rear too.

After much discussion we decided that the ride height can be fine tuned (after setting the sag on both ends) with the extra inch of fork length by sliding it deeper into the triples. This is made easier by the bar risers already installed on my bike.

All that is to say that I am shooting for a very similar ride height as my Dakar had before. You will have a bit more trail with the YZ triples so you may want to experiment with lowering the front even more than standard to reduce the trail if it steers to slow.

Much of the improvement that I expect will come from less deflection from the more rigid front end. Think about the fact that we are going from a 41mm standard to a 46mm USD. The USD means that the area subject to the most deflection (where the lower triple clamps the fork tube) is now 58mm vs 41mm. Not to mention a much more sophisticated damping system, more travel and a lighter weight assembly.

My riding is more in line wth what you described. Rob hits it pretty hard from what I can tell....Based on his experience with a direct bolt on, I think I will be really happy with the matching rear and some additional tuning to the set up.

Now if we can just get the machine time to finish this up

Rad
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:25 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries71
CUT it all out!!! AH AH that's funny !!!! That would be the easy way for sure, but I use the bike for commuting also and I must admit that ABS saved my ass a couple times (hot blonds in tight shorts are very distracting coming around a corner!!) I ride in the rain too and it did come in handy there also... or maybe I just have to slow down pay attention to what I'm doing LOL!!!.

Thanks for letting me in on the buy Rad, very appreciated.

NOTMY...How high did it make your bike? Is it comparable to a stock Dakar? Bit higher I imagine. Since i'll be using the bike as a all rounder height is definitely a consideration (i'd hate to fall over at a stop light LOL!!)

Cheers
Pierre
Hot blonds in tight short? Please dude, you live in Ontario. One week of sun light per year and the women look like polar bears . Just kidding, my wife is from New Brunswick (raised in Cali and looks more like a Cali beach bunny) and we spend a few weeks every year in NB and Nova Scotia. Also, Toronto. There truly are some beautiful women in Canada,but we'll keep that a secret .

As for ride height, one of the greatest things about this swap is that you gain not only travel, but sag. I appreciate the sag as much as the added height as this is what really matters when you're at seed over whoops. THis really depends on your riding style and ultimately, it's infinitely adjustable to fit what you do.

Mine is set to add 1" of height to the bike, and I have my triples dropped .75". When I redo my rear shock I will take that .75" out and go for the full height that it offers. I spend 90% of my time in the dirt, only hitting pavement to get to the dirt.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:16 AM   #90
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Hot blonds in tight short? Please dude, you live in Ontario. One week of sun light per year and the women look like polar bears.
Well that's just it, we don't have too many of these around here, so when you see one it's enough to make you kiss the back of a semi if you're not careful LOL!!!! (thank goodness for ABS on that one!). Unfortunately we are not blessed like you guys in California where they seem to grow on trees...or out of the sandy beaches!!

Back to bikes; it's good to hear that there is quite a bit of adjustment possibilities available, I'm not very familiar with USD forks so that's why all the questions and also I want to do this only once and make sure it'll fit my riding.
I like your write up Rad, very informative.

Hey...what about steering stops? what did you do? Or did you bother? I know, I just don't shut up with the questions, but good info is hard to come by on this subject even at the Chain Gang.

Cheers
Pierre
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