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Old 04-29-2004, 06:26 AM   #1
Flanny OP
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SAS-and-Canister-Ectomy, recovering well, and prognosy positive!!!

I just finished performing my canister and SAS-Ectomy with wonderful results.

Mine is a 2004 (a true 2004) without EPC stuff.

The bike had been suffering since it's 1000K services at my dealer. Chopping the throttle resulted in lots of poping an hubaloo in general. It also ran rough in the pilot circuit, and even a little rough getting on the needle.

After trying to tune out the problem with jetting (needle clip back to #2, richer on the pilot) without success, I decided to gut-out all the emissions crap.

I had experience flooding of the canister a few times via-fual tank vaccuum issues, and was just sick of it! And the mechanic mentionned something about having some trouble with the "Air system"...so I was suspicous that he fucked something up.

Here's what I did.

Canister
1 - I removed the Charcoal Canister and the vaccum valve from the fairing.
2 - I removed the vaccum valve from under the air box
3 - I installed a peice of hose from the "Y" fitting between the carbs (the carb vents) and ran it to behind the airbox where the SAS valve was, and connected it to a carb vent filter from a 640 Adventure.
4 - I vaccum capped all vaccuum ports on the intakes.
5 - I vented the fuel tanks using 1/4 fuel line by simpoly running the line down along the fram trellis to meet with the overflow hose, and ran it down parralel to the overflow.

SAS
1 - Pulled all of the hoses off.
2 - Capped vaccuum ports
3 - Removed hose connectors and reed valves from the head
4 - TRaced the hose connectors onto 1/8" 6061 plate and made some blanking plates (5 minute job)
5 - Installed the blanking plates with high temp gasket compound.

Jetting:

- Put the Idle Scre back to stock 2 - 1/4
- Put the needle clip pack to 3rd slot from the top.
- I have the sommer air box mod in, and put a piece of tape on to cover about 1/3 of it to make up for the holes in the air box as a result of taking the vaccum valve of the bottom.

Voila!!! Runs like a charm! No stupid popping on deceleration, just a satisfying growl. Overall it runs smooth, and is back to it's pre-1000k service state.

I'm pretty sure that there was either charcoal clogging something, or a malfuntion in the reed valves, SAS valve or one of the vaccum valves, because the difference in night and day.

No photos, but once you start pulling hoses off, it's pretty obvious how it's all connected, and what needs to be capped. The only thing that is not capped is the carb vent that connects to a "Y" between the carbs, and exits through the bottom of the air box. These need to be vented to atmosphere through a small filter.

Anyway...I'm glad I did it, and it only took about 3 hours total with tank/fairing removal and re-installation.

Flanny screwed with this post 04-29-2004 at 06:32 AM
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Old 04-29-2004, 06:42 AM   #2
Ricardo Kuhn
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Flanny awesome work as ussual

I love to read your procedures,,is like I'm "looking" over your shoulder

thanks again from a guy that envy your many skills
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Old 04-29-2004, 07:30 AM   #3
gorgopodaros
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Some 1.000 kms FAQ

Flanny, pretty nice piece of wisdom


How can you tell that she really is a 2004 model ?
Got mine 10 days ago, but I'm not sure if she has EPC or something...

I'll be on my dealer tomorrow for my 1.000 km srvice and I wonder if I should tell him to remove the EPC (if it exists anyway).

some mates tell me to dump it, others not even think about it; it will screw up my settings (?)
(please note I run the Akras...)

She runs smoothly at the time being, though I would expect more power (of course I'm runing her in and do not exceed 6.000 RPM, so the REAL power might comes a bit higher)

By the way, does the fan keeps turning on all the time after the 1.000 km service ???

Thank u
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:30 AM   #4
Flanny OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn
I love to read your procedures,,is like I'm "looking" over your shoulder

thanks again from a guy that envy your many skills

Thanks Mr. Suavé...Of course pictures would be better...But Flanny-Wife (Being pregnant and all) is getting touchy about shop and internet time!!!
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:47 AM   #5
Flanny OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorgopodaros
Flanny, pretty nice piece of wisdom


How can you tell that she really is a 2004 model ?
Got mine 10 days ago, but I'm not sure if she has EPC or something...Gorgopodaros
True 2004 have the single colour fender, and black rims.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gorgopodaros
I'll be on my dealer tomorrow for my 1.000 km srvice and I wonder if I should tell him to remove the EPC (if it exists anyway).

some mates tell me to dump it, others not even think about it; it will screw up my settings (?)
(please note I run the Akras...)

She runs smoothly at the time being, though I would expect more power (of course I'm runing her in and do not exceed 6.000 RPM, so the REAL power might comes a bit higher)
Gorgopodaros
You must note that there are three SEPARATE Sytems:

1 - EPC or Electronic Position Control. This systems senses throttle position on both carbs, and regulates slide lift. It is meant to satisfy Euro emission specs, and IS NOT on 2004 (true 2004) North American Models.

If you have a 2003 model, the reason this EPC system should be removed (search for many posts on this) is that it limits the lift of the slide and has a slight negative effect on performance.

2 - The Evaporative Control System: This system collect fuel fumes from wherever they are emitted (fuel tank vent, carb vent etc). This is the famous Canister-Ectomy.

The reason why this should be performed is to resolve the tank overfill/vaccuum/spill/canister overflow problem. Basically, if you overfill the tanks (or put you bike on the sidestand in the sun after filling with the proper level), the fuel vent lines fill with gas, and proceed to overfill the canister. The eveap system is not meant to deal with fuel (just fumes), so I fucks everthing up, and the system can;t breath..Then the right tank backfills, and the left tenk empties until the vaccum created causes the bike to stalll...When you opne the right tank to see what the hell is going on, it is filled over the filler cap, and more gas spills everywhere and makes a bloody mess.

That's why this needs to be done (since its only a mnor inconvenience to have gas spill all over the god-damn place when your on your way to work... )

The best solution to the fuel tank vents is probably the Acerbis or E-line check valves, but I just did it "the old fasioned way" by running hose to somewhere near the bottom of the bike.

3. The Secondary Air System (SAS). This system consists of a Vaccum Valve, and reed valves that allow filtered air to be injected into the exhasut ports on the head. The theory is that is will cause un-spent gasses to burn, resulting in fewer emisions.

The reason why this should be conbsidered for removal is that while it causes fuel to burnt, unfortunately, by definition it also causes a lean conditon in the exhaust, and makes the bike pop on deceleration (which I hate). It is also just more crap to malfuntion on you while you are out adventuring (one of the fittings on the SAS valve attached to the rear of the air-box is very small, and very delicate and prone to break).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gorgopodaros
By the way, does the fan keeps turning on all the time after the 1.000 km service ???

Thank u
Gorgopodaros

My fan only comes on if the bike is left idling or in traffic. It rarely comes on otherwise (it's still pretty cool up here in Canada).

Hope all that 'splainin' helps.

Cheers!
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Old 04-29-2004, 12:43 PM   #6
K2ride
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Good write up Flanny!
I`m running the stock cans.
Do you think it would be wise to perform the same ectomy/mods while still running the catalytic converters?
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Old 04-29-2004, 12:57 PM   #7
Flanny OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K2ride
Good write up Flanny!
I`m running the stock cans.
Do you think it would be wise to perform the same ectomy/mods while still running the catalytic converters?

Not the SAS-Ectomy. The "cleansing" of the gasses is required to keep the converters clean.
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Old 04-29-2004, 01:15 PM   #8
Bravo100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanny
2 - The Evaporative Control System: This system collect fuel fumes from wherever they are emitted (fuel tank vent, carb vent etc). This is the famous Canister-Ectomy.

The reason why this should be performed is to resolve the tank overfill/vaccuum/spill/canister overflow problem. Basically, if you overfill the tanks (or put you bike on the sidestand in the sun after filling with the proper level), the fuel vent lines fill with gas, and proceed to overfill the canister. The eveap system is not meant to deal with fuel (just fumes), so I fucks everthing up, and the system can;t breath..Then the right tank backfills, and the left tenk empties until the vaccum created causes the bike to stalll...When you opne the right tank to see what the hell is going on, it is filled over the filler cap, and more gas spills everywhere and makes a bloody mess.

That's why this needs to be done (since its only a mnor inconvenience to have gas spill all over the god-damn place when your on your way to work... )

The best solution to the fuel tank vents is probably the Acerbis or E-line check valves, but I just did it "the old fasioned way" by running hose to somewhere near the bottom of the bike.
A couple of questions:

Do all 950s have the overfill problem and it's just waiting waiting to happen under the right conditions?

Is the check valve solution and alternative to removing the canister?

Is it advisable to remove everything ASAP or should I wait until the bike is broken in?

Thanks for sharing you wisdom with us mortals...
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Old 04-29-2004, 01:21 PM   #9
Anthony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanny
2 - The Evaporative Control System: This system collect fuel fumes from wherever they are emitted (fuel tank vent, carb vent etc). This is the famous Canister-Ectomy.

The reason why this should be performed is to resolve the tank overfill/vaccuum/spill/canister overflow problem. Basically, if you overfill the tanks (or put you bike on the sidestand in the sun after filling with the proper level), the fuel vent lines fill with gas, and proceed to overfill the canister. The eveap system is not meant to deal with fuel (just fumes), so I fucks everthing up, and the system can;t breath..Then the right tank backfills, and the left tenk empties until the vaccum created causes the bike to stalll...When you opne the right tank to see what the hell is going on, it is filled over the filler cap, and more gas spills everywhere and makes a bloody mess.

That's why this needs to be done (since its only a mnor inconvenience to have gas spill all over the god-damn place when your on your way to work... )
The other reason this should be done is that it can malfunction and cause the bike to not start or idle properly, run too rich and foul your rear cyclinder spark plug. Then, that can cause you to have to drive 3 hours each way to Phoenix twice to have your dealer do what you could have done in three hours by yourself. This system is a shitty afterthought on KTM's part to address California emissions laws. The funny thing is that between the gasoline leaking and the motor running rich and smoky, my wifes bike has fouled the environment more than it would in its whole useable life without this bullshit system.
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Old 04-29-2004, 01:51 PM   #10
Flanny OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo100
A couple of questions:

Do all 950s have the overfill problem and it's just waiting waiting to happen under the right conditions?
Yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo100
Is the check valve solution an alternative to removing the canister?
Not really, but sort of. The Canister takes vapour from a few places, the tank vents being one of them. You could install cjheck valves in the tank vents, and still leave the can in place to take up vapour from the carbs for example. This would take care of MOST of the problem, but still leaves all of the BS stuck to your bike.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo100
Is it advisable to remove everything ASAP or should I wait until the bike is broken in?
I would wait until after the dealer performs the 1000K service just to leave some level of protection on your warrantee.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo100
Thanks for sharing you wisdom with us mortals..
You are welcome, but I am really just learning about the 950...the gods here are K2MAX, KIRKMOON, BARBASMA etc...I am but an apprentice...
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Old 04-29-2004, 01:52 PM   #11
Flanny OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
The funny thing is that between the gasoline leaking and the motor running rich and smoky, my wifes bike has fouled the environment more than it would in its whole useable life without this bullshit system.
That is a brilliant point! How true.
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Old 04-29-2004, 03:46 PM   #12
Bravo100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
This system is a shitty afterthought on KTM's part to address California emissions laws.
I have not received my bike yet, but I am almost sure it will be a Euro model...does all this stuff apply to Euro models as well?
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Old 04-30-2004, 11:47 AM   #13
gorgopodaros
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less is more

Flanny thanx ,

I've got orange one-color front fender and black rims, so it has to be 2004 model, I'll ask the mechanic if there is an EPC (I hope not, less shit to go out)

Thank you again for the detailed write up, I'll get hands on next week...
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:52 AM   #14
Greg Minor
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I have searched all over and I can't find a source for the one way check valves does anyone know of a store that carries them I have my bike apart and need to put it together by sat so i can ride
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Old 05-13-2004, 09:22 AM   #15
darmahman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Minor
I have searched all over and I can't find a source for the one way check valves does anyone know of a store that carries them I have my bike apart and need to put it together by sat so i can ride
Greg - I got on the Acerbis web site, called em up and ordered a set from them. Got em 3 days later. They also tell you authorized Acerbis dealers on this site.
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