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Old 10-23-2011, 03:10 PM   #21211
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:52 AM   #21212
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Originally Posted by EvilGenius View Post
Not when you're on drugs or a huge adrenaline dump.

There are recorded cases of folks being shot point blank or near with large caliber handguns in the head and vital organs who continued to fight for several more minutes.
One of the reasons that military went to the .45 was the problems it had with the 38 in the philippines. People wacked out of their minds and the 38 just going through them. A nice fat SLOW 45 will put you down.

All that said I would not want to be shot with a 380 that is for sure, and in a SHTF type deal I would want something that I could hit what I aim at more then once.

If you are small a 45 is just out of the question...I know many that will not practice with their choice of carry weapon because "it hurts" to shoot it....well that is just wrong.

The wife carries a 380 with a laser...she can hit playing cards at 25 yards three shots back to back. That is what you need to do....in a SHTF and you are all jazzed I figure she would be able to hit a man sized target at 25yards....god forbid it ever happen.

Bottom line is that 45 does you no good if you don't carry it, or if it takes you 20 secs to get it out, or if you never practice with it.
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Old 10-24-2011, 05:56 AM   #21213
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:00 AM   #21214
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Originally Posted by FPGT72 View Post
One of the reasons that military went to the .45 was the problems it had with the 38 in the philippines. People wacked out of their minds and the 38 just going through them. A nice fat SLOW 45 will put you down.

All that said I would not want to be shot with a 380 that is for sure, and in a SHTF type deal I would want something that I could hit what I aim at more then once.

If you are small a 45 is just out of the question...I know many that will not practice with their choice of carry weapon because "it hurts" to shoot it....well that is just wrong.

The wife carries a 380 with a laser...she can hit playing cards at 25 yards three shots back to back. That is what you need to do....in a SHTF and you are all jazzed I figure she would be able to hit a man sized target at 25yards....god forbid it ever happen.

Bottom line is that 45 does you no good if you don't carry it, or if it takes you 20 secs to get it out, or if you never practice with it.
Yeah, during the Phillipine Insurrection I believe that the Moro rebels were often hopped up on some sort of stimulant and just didn't go down as easily to the 38s being issued primarily to American officers at the time, resulting in several (not all that many) headless officers due to machete blows. So the Army scrounged up a number of old Single Action Army Colt 45 revolvers and distributed them, and that certainly played a role in returning officially to a larger caliber which was counter to the trend at the time of going to smaller, higher velocity, calibers after the advent of smokeless powder just a few years earlier.

I'm always puzzled about the reputed recoil of the 45ACP. It certainly depends on the size of the gun, etc., but to me a 38, 9mm, 40, 45Colt and 45ACP all have a similar "feel" on recoil. They just sort of hop in your hand and then settle back down. I can "feel" a difference when I step up to, say, 357 or 10mm or anything bigger. But one day I was shooting with a girlfriend who was banging away happily with 38s in her SP101 and asked to fire my 1911. It was a full-size all steel gun, standard hard-ball loads, and she fired one shot, went "whoa!" and handed it back to me saying that it kicked too much. I didn't think it kicked any more than her little Ruger, but guess her perceptions were different, and I can definitely say that recoil is partly about perception.
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:48 AM   #21215
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When I used to carry, I carried various things from a 357 Ruger, to a CZ75 to the 1911-double stack.

In the end I preferred the 45. Fully loaded with 16 rounds (+ spare mag), it was heavier than the CZ (18 rounds + spare mag), but lighter than the Ruger 357 (18 rounds- 6 + two speed loaders). But it was also my competition pistol and I felt more "at peace" with it as I shot it the most and knew exatly what it could and could not do. I wouldn't say it was better, as a 357 has much better penetration and will probably take out an assailant behind cover, but I just felt more at home with it. Incidentally, I had two jams on separate occasions with the CZ, which was a major consideration when I swopped. Darnest thing, cause it would work perfectly on the range, but when the heat was on... Never had any hassles with the 45 though

I also watched a documentary way-back-when that swayed my opinion to the 45 above the wonder-9. I think it was called Dangerous wounds. It dealt with permanent cavities and hydro-shock. Had real-life case studies and also dealt with ballistic gelotine (which incidentally is not the same as hitting a body- so even if a projectile mushrooms perfectly in gelotine, it's not to say it will when you shoot someone) The short and the long of it- a permanent cavity will stop an assailant, hydroshock will kill him in a few hours. Thus the bigger the permanent cavity (i.e. the projectile), the larger the chance of hitting something vital and stopping the assailant. Which would you prefer?

Lastly- I know the 45 has inferior penetration to 357 and 40 S&W, but at least you won't have over penetration and its pretty safe to use "in a crowd"

My opinion at least
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:06 AM   #21216
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Lastly- I know the 45 has inferior penetration to 357 and 40 S&W, but at least you won't have over penetration and its pretty safe to use "in a crowd"

My opinion at least
It always seems only the bad guys have the luck to worry about over penetration... The good guys always seem to fire a ton of rounds and miss everything and the bad guy fires one round that somehow finds the underarm hole of the good guys vest.

And I love this gun:

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Old 10-24-2011, 07:08 AM   #21217
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It always seems only the bad guys have the luck to worry about over penetration... The good guys always seem to fire a ton of rounds and miss everything and the bad guy fires one round that somehow finds the underarm hole of the good guys vest.

And I love this gun:

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Old 10-24-2011, 07:14 AM   #21218
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Yeah, during the Phillipine Insurrection I believe that the Moro rebels were often hopped up on some sort of stimulant and just didn't go down as easily to the 38s being issued primarily to American officers at the time, resulting in several (not all that many) headless officers due to machete blows. So the Army scrounged up a number of old Single Action Army Colt 45 revolvers and distributed them, and that certainly played a role in returning officially to a larger caliber which was counter to the trend at the time of going to smaller, higher velocity, calibers after the advent of smokeless powder just a few years earlier.

I'm always puzzled about the reputed recoil of the 45ACP. It certainly depends on the size of the gun, etc., but to me a 38, 9mm, 40, 45Colt and 45ACP all have a similar "feel" on recoil. They just sort of hop in your hand and then settle back down. I can "feel" a difference when I step up to, say, 357 or 10mm or anything bigger. But one day I was shooting with a girlfriend who was banging away happily with 38s in her SP101 and asked to fire my 1911. It was a full-size all steel gun, standard hard-ball loads, and she fired one shot, went "whoa!" and handed it back to me saying that it kicked too much. I didn't think it kicked any more than her little Ruger, but guess her perceptions were different, and I can definitely say that recoil is partly about perception.
I have noticed that it seems to be females that have the problem as well. My wife will shoot the 92fs, (about as big 9mm as you can get) but as far as any other 9mm or anything else in the ball park she does not want anything to do with it.

I have a neighbor that is about as 180 from my wife as you can get, my wife 100 lbs soaking wet with winter clothes on, my neighbor a big gal (not fat just a bigger lady) around 6' and 200 or so lbs I would guess. She did not like anything larger...and went with a 380 like my wife had.
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:17 AM   #21219
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Originally Posted by FPGT72 View Post
One of the reasons that military went to the .45 was the problems it had with the 38 in the philippines. People wacked out of their minds and the 38 just going through them. A nice fat SLOW 45 will put you down.

All that said I would not want to be shot with a 380 that is for sure, and in a SHTF type deal I would want something that I could hit what I aim at more then once.

If you are small a 45 is just out of the question...I know many that will not practice with their choice of carry weapon because "it hurts" to shoot it....well that is just wrong.

The wife carries a 380 with a laser...she can hit playing cards at 25 yards three shots back to back. That is what you need to do....in a SHTF and you are all jazzed I figure she would be able to hit a man sized target at 25yards....god forbid it ever happen.

Bottom line is that 45 does you no good if you don't carry it, or if it takes you 20 secs to get it out, or if you never practice with it.
Yeah, isn't there a super rare Smith revolver from those days, with a trigger designed for 2 short Filipino fingers? Long trigger and big open trigger guard? Seems I remember seeing that the Filipinos fighting with us, weren't given 1911's but rather the revolvers. And that their fingers were short enough to struggle with the long DA pull. Thus, the fix was a trigger / guard long enough to get the first two fingers on.
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:37 AM   #21220
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I know several folks with Bersas, flawless functionality. Most seem to think they are an improved upon Walther PPK. I don't think their cheapness translates into lack of bang-bang.
I have one and it has never failed me or the previous Chicken who owned it. Great little gun.
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:53 AM   #21221
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Originally Posted by FPGT72 View Post
One of the reasons that military went to the .45 was the problems it had with the 38 in the philippines. People wacked out of their minds and the 38 just going through them. A nice fat SLOW 45 will put you down.

All that said I would not want to be shot with a 380 that is for sure, and in a SHTF type deal I would want something that I could hit what I aim at more then once.

If you are small a 45 is just out of the question...I know many that will not practice with their choice of carry weapon because "it hurts" to shoot it....well that is just wrong.

The wife carries a 380 with a laser...she can hit playing cards at 25 yards three shots back to back. That is what you need to do....in a SHTF and you are all jazzed I figure she would be able to hit a man sized target at 25yards....god forbid it ever happen.

Bottom line is that 45 does you no good if you don't carry it, or if it takes you 20 secs to get it out, or if you never practice with it.
So then practice and carry effectively.

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Old 10-24-2011, 07:58 AM   #21222
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:00 AM   #21223
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Hardcase wrote:

I'm always puzzled about the reputed recoil of the 45ACP. It certainly depends on the size of the gun, etc., but to me a 38, 9mm, 40, 45Colt and 45ACP all have a similar "feel" on recoil. They just sort of hop in your hand and then settle back down. I can "feel" a difference when I step up to, say, 357 or 10mm or anything bigger. But one day I was shooting with a girlfriend who was banging away happily with 38s in her SP101 and asked to fire my 1911. It was a full-size all steel gun, standard hard-ball loads, and she fired one shot, went "whoa!" and handed it back to me saying that it kicked too much. I didn't think it kicked any more than her little Ruger, but guess her perceptions were different, and I can definitely say that recoil is partly about perception.[/QUOTE]

My sentiments exactly. I never have understood the myth about the 1911 recoil. Except for my theory, that it is a myth and people who first shoot one expect it so it is. For me, a guy who started shooting 1911s asa a kid of about 12, I never have felt that a 1911 had recoil to speak of and that in my opinion, a .357mag revolver has more felt recoil and so does a .40 S&W auto handgun. Both to me are far more slappy and the 1911 is just a push.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:02 AM   #21224
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You are one of the only ones! Oddly enough, I ALMOST got my eye put out with a red ryder, we were having a BB gun war when I was about 17, and the rules were no shooting in the face, but a buddy we called Mr. Peabody (my nick for him) shot me as I rose above the couch to check my field of fire, and the BB entered my eyelid and popped out the other side doing no damage. LUCKY AS HELL! I gave him one hell of a charley horse in the thigh for that one.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:03 AM   #21225
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I have a well abused Winchester 1897 pump that was given to me years ago. The action was super tight and the outside of the barrel is pretty rusty but amazingly the bore is clean. A little oil has helped it cycle pretty smoth but I am wondering what do to about the barrel.

I have thought about shortening the barrel to 20" to police model specs. I dont want to invest a bunch of money, This old gun just isnt worth much , I have seen them at the shows in this condition for around $100. Am I crazy or should I just hang it on the wall? If I get rid of the rust what could I put on it and keep the "patina"?

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