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Old 11-20-2008, 02:17 PM   #1
OldManDragon OP
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Where to buy 100% REAL Gasoline?

Are there any places to buy real 100% Gasoline in the U.S.? Particularly in the Southeastern US? I miss the better milage, performance, etc. Where can we find it? How much does it cost? Is AVGAS an alternative? Ideas?
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:20 PM   #2
bomber60015
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Avgas is certainly an alternative -- be aware that it's not taxed the same as road fuel, and you'd be contravening a number of local, state, and, likely, federal statutes, if that's a concern.

Also, the airport guys may not be real willing to put avgas into anything that doesn't have wings . . . . . . . .

You don't have to ask how I know.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:38 PM   #3
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As mentioned, avgas is about the only way to do it and there are no road taxes on it, so it would be illegal to use on the public roads without figuring out some way to add state and federal local taxes to it.

However, it is perfectly legal to use it for off-road applications. So if your lawn mower, chainsaw, tractor, or dirtbike runs better on it there is no law saying you cannot bring a couple gas cans to the FBO and fill them up.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:49 PM   #4
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Another reason you cannot buy pure gasoline anymore for automotive use is that there are EPA mandates preventing it, so you'd be breaking environmental laws as well.

The irony is that even though you cannot buy unadulterated gasoline anymore, it is what the EPA still uses to get federal MPG ratings. I don't know how big a mileage hit there would be if they switched to using E85 as a standard but it would be enough to re-classify most vehicles I suspect.

I think one of the closest to gasoline anymore is Amoco Ultimate, but you should google that first as I'm going on a pretty old recollection there.
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:42 PM   #5
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Be careful with AvGas it has lead in it

Just a heads up but Avgas has lead in it. You can also buy racing
gas which has the higher octane but is still unleaded. Go to
www.buyracegas.com for buying info.
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey
..........The irony is that even though you cannot buy unadulterated gasoline anymore, it is what the EPA still uses to get federal MPG ratings. I don't know how big a mileage hit there would be if they switched to using E85 as a standard but it would be enough to re-classify most vehicles I suspect........
Neat thing about being a college student is I just recieved a lecture on automotive fuels from an EPA chemist this morning. I actually asked this question, and the answer is it's a simple matter of mathematics.

Ethanol blend has 75% of the heating value of your 'unadulterated' gasoline, ergo an ethenol mix would provide 75% of the fuel economy in optimal conditions (pure ethanol). That said, to be economically suitable, E85 must be AT LEAST 25% cheaper than regular unleaded to make sense monitarily, but for you guys, E85 will provide you with 25% less fuel economy.

Your GS net you 40 mpg cruising backroads? Supposing E85 was safe, you'd slide down to a 30mpg average. Whether this cost savings is worth it to you is a matter of personal opinion, but I dislike using a lower heating capacity fuel. You're essenitally lowering your total range by a factor of 25% as well. We're going in the wrong direction, and he even admitted it!
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:43 PM   #7
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Also consider that Avgas is a little higher octane than autogas, and using it in a motor designed to efficiently burn low octane fuel will cause lower combustion chamber temps. This will lead to carbon buildup. Used regularly, it will cause a lot of carbon buildup. Ironically, this will cause the engine to knock unless you run higher octane fuel through it.

Avgas octane is calculated differently, so 100 octane Avgas will approximate 95 octane autogas.

Also, tetraethyl-lead is still used in Avgas.

I wouldn't recommend it, and you'll have a hard time buying it anyway.

Az
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2oskier
Just a heads up but Avgas has lead in it. You can also buy racing
gas which has the higher octane but is still unleaded. Go to
www.buyracegas.com for buying info.
Dave
higher octane number is not what he's after. Do you know why the use ethanol? It resists combustion, therefore increases octane.

Reading octane and equating power output is like saying a Diesel Dodge Ram with 600 horsepower is going to waste a 200hp civic because it's producing more power. In reality, all unleaded gasoline has the same amount of heating capacity, therefore ability to combust and provide rotational energy and power. Think about it!
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:57 PM   #9
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Avgas is about $5/gallon and it was much more not long ago. Have fun with that.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldManDragon
Are there any places to buy real 100% Gasoline in the U.S.? Particularly in the Southeastern US? I miss the better milage, performance, etc. Where can we find it? How much does it cost? Is AVGAS an alternative? Ideas?
I haven't seen any in the southeast during my last few roadtrips to Atlanta. Of course in October, I was lucky to find *any* gas down there.

Here in the mid-Atlantic, the last holdouts seem to be Chevron stations. Once in a while I'll find one with the 10% ethanol label, but the majority of Chevrons around me are still pumping real 100% gasoline. It's the only gas I buy for any of my vehicles now. Pretty sure I've seen a few Sunocos that still have real gas, and then there's the sleepy little general store with the CAM2 lurking right next to the street-legal pumps.

Pretty much all of the Exxons, BPs, etc are pumping gasohol now...it gave them an apparent price advantage for a while, and your average consumer hasn't been paying attention to the alcohol or reduced energy content. Now, they're just pocketing the cost difference...this evening I passed a line of people waiting to buy sub-$2 Exxon gasohol for the same price I paid for real gas at the Chevron on the next block. For a while, Shell seemed to be resisting the change, but about two years ago all of the local ones switched over too.

YMMV.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdbx
Reading octane and equating power output is like saying a Diesel Dodge Ram with 600 horsepower is going to waste a 200hp civic because it's producing more power. In reality, all unleaded gasoline has the same amount of heating capacity, therefore ability to combust and provide rotational energy and power. Think about it!
But if you have a motor that's designed for high octane fuel, ie; high compression, that motor will make more power with that same fuel.

My cage is german and designed to run on 93 octane. It has knock sensors that will retard the timing just enough to eliminate knocking if you run 87 or 89 octane. As an experiment, I tried running the same stretch of road two days in a row. With the higher octane fuel, I got just over 400 miles to the tank. With the lower octane fuel, the light came on at 315 miles.

It's all about efficiency.

Az
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:37 PM   #12
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Real Gas Here

Here is link to VP:

http://vpracingfuels.com/fuels_unleaded.asp

This is the real deal, ran it in my circle track cars.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:47 PM   #13
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My bikes and caged vehicles all run exactly the same on 10% corn likker gas or "real" gas, so I don't give a shit.

Good thing, since 10% alky is all we have nowadays here in corn country.



The insanity of turning food crops into fuel (instead of at least using other biomass) is another matter for another thread in another forum...
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:43 AM   #14
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http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/Consum...UnleadedFuels/

I believe you can also order Torco fuels still.

Either way, you can get 55 gallon drums of it, and store it in your garage, but its going to be more expensive than suffering the hit of your nice 10% ethanol diluted local product.

Some gas stations do sell "the real stuff" hundred octane non-ethanol blends, but they're rare these days, more common near drag strips where guys stop and fill cans for the weekend.

Any of the real good stuff TEL or MTBE additives that is are bad news for the environment, not that ethanol is good for it. But still.
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:01 AM   #15
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In Texas if you get outside of the surounding counties ajoining a major city a seller has the option to buy and sell ethanol free gas. The ones I frequent advertise this. Most major fuel suppliers will sell 55 gal. drums ( minimum ) of either race or ethanol free gas for use in offroad applications. My Guzzi gets 3 MPH better fuel mileage on ethanol free.
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