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Old 05-10-2010, 03:56 PM   #151
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As far as aftermarket exhaust with Jesse's, I have had a great experience with my Remus titanium (non-hexacone, deeper growl). It fits just right, the Jesse's clear it with no problem, and it never corrodes in any way, no matter what. You can't say that about aluminum or carbon fiber.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:01 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Fireman
As far as aftermarket exhaust with Jesse's, I have had a great experience with my Remus titanium (non-hexacone, deeper growl). It fits just right, the Jesse's clear it with no problem, and it never corrodes in any way, no matter what. You can't say that about aluminum or carbon fiber.
Both aluminum and carbon fiber don't "corrode". I don't quite know what you're talking about.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:26 PM   #153
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Both aluminum and carbon fiber don't "corrode". I don't quite know what you're talking about.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:41 PM   #154
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:07 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireman
As far as aftermarket exhaust with Jesse's, I have had a great experience with my Remus titanium (non-hexacone, deeper growl). It fits just right, the Jesse's clear it with no problem, and it never corrodes in any way, no matter what. You can't say that about aluminum or carbon fiber.
You have been mis-informed.......While road salt can corrode aluminum if it breaks through the finish......Nothing will touch the Carbon Fiber. Titanium will damage due to in part it`s thinner walls, and very little puncture resistance.
CF....if protected against uv rays will last forever.



Only thing that will get to the CF is a bad wipe out....but then throw in a little kevlar.....like in the system above......

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Old 05-10-2010, 10:09 PM   #156
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OK, looks like I need to explain my comment. Here goes:
I used to work at a fabrication shop as a prototyper for this research and design firm. While building things out of neat metals, I found that chemical reactions can do interesting things to both aluminum and carbon fiber over time. I call it "corrosion" because I don't know of a better term for it. Erosion, maybe? Anyway, when aluminum was exposed to bleach, it underwent a permanent change to the finish that could only be removed by removing the surface of the metal. It also was easily stained by rusting iron components, as well as heat. This was unanodized aluminum, so I assume that the mufflers would not see this effect unless the anodizing was worn off or scratched. With carbon fiber, I've seen some interesting corrosion happen where it meets aluminum, especially when it has been bonded by high-strength epoxies I know it's a chemical reaction, but I'm not a chemist so I couldn't say what is reacting. In any case, it bubbles up with white crust where it meets the metal. Back when I was working in a bicycle shop the guys used to call it "carbon cancer," caused a lot of warranty issues with the first Trek carbon fiber frames. Now I'm not saying that will happen to your exhaust - I've had an 1150R with carbon fiber exhaust that looked great for years until it was sold. I'm just saying I've never seen titanium react that way to anything yet. Just watch... tomorrow I'll find out that titanium melts when combined with my spilled coffee and S100's metal polish.
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:42 PM   #157
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+1. Damn near everything corrodes to some degree or another. Aluminum alloys actually corrode pretty well if not anodized or otherwise coated in some way. Carbon composites and titanium are pretty resistant, really only having problems when used improperly (as noted above) or in really nasty environments.
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:50 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireman
OK, looks like I need to explain my comment. Here goes:
I used to work at a fabrication shop as a prototyper for this research and design firm. While building things out of neat metals, I found that chemical reactions can do interesting things to both aluminum and carbon fiber over time. I call it "corrosion" because I don't know of a better term for it. Erosion, maybe? Anyway, when aluminum was exposed to bleach, it underwent a permanent change to the finish that could only be removed by removing the surface of the metal. It also was easily stained by rusting iron components, as well as heat. This was unanodized aluminum, so I assume that the mufflers would not see this effect unless the anodizing was worn off or scratched. With carbon fiber, I've seen some interesting corrosion happen where it meets aluminum, especially when it has been bonded by high-strength epoxies I know it's a chemical reaction, but I'm not a chemist so I couldn't say what is reacting. In any case, it bubbles up with white crust where it meets the metal. Back when I was working in a bicycle shop the guys used to call it "carbon cancer," caused a lot of warranty issues with the first Trek carbon fiber frames. Now I'm not saying that will happen to your exhaust - I've had an 1150R with carbon fiber exhaust that looked great for years until it was sold. I'm just saying I've never seen titanium react that way to anything yet. Just watch... tomorrow I'll find out that titanium melts when combined with my spilled coffee and S100's metal polish.
To cast a perfect CF set is not easy. Does`nt matter if you use polyester or epoxy. As you will see on the disclaimers of the bubbles imperfections. The " Cancer" as you refer to are bubbles that over time will fill with moisture.....cool ...and heat, that will slowly give in over time. The boating industry will refer to this as "gell coat blistering" However.... If you see this in a bond to aluminum in a test like you mentioned......It is fully contributed to using the wrong bonding materials (adhesives) and bonding the two materials inappropriately. I am not trying to pick on you or your past work, so please don`t take it as such. The trek frames had early issues, because the composite technology is still young in the bike industry, and truthfully just now are getting a hand on it. Making a bike frame is no simple task, and there have been a lot of trial and error in that field. Handlebars came in first perfected..... Seat posts....well it took a while....seen all the pic`s ...right... Now they are just getting the frames right. What will damage CF is not a chemical reaction.....nor corrosion....but the abrasive implication of being mounted next to a say metal object, that will vibrate....and slowly "file away of the composite" until it breaks. Back to the thread.......... Most manufactures use a top coat of uv protecting lacquer......automotive style....to protect the epoxy from the bombardment of uv rays. if you scratch the can.......dent it....puncture it......you just fix it with a patch....sand it smooth...then re-coat it with lacquer. Once you dent the metal cans.....even more so with the TI.....they are usually done.
The CF ones can be fixed.......

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Old 05-11-2010, 08:43 AM   #159
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Very interesting about that carbon fiber problem...I have not only seen the pictures but several scary looking shattered seatposts in the shop...and you're right, Trek was learning the hard way how to use CF. I didn't know the blistering was caused by moisture. Maybe because they just took a long CF tube and cut it into lengths for the frame pieces, instead of sealing the ends of the tubes like you would if you laid each one up individually?

I do remember having a long conversation with the US Remus rep when I was buying that carbon fiber exhaust. He mentioned that UV was the only real threat to their CF material, and that I might see a gradual change in the tint of the muffler over time. I guess it might have gotten a little more "golden" colored, but not bad at all. I will say that I got that thing absolutely filthy (coast to coast without a bath) a couple times and it always cleaned up easy. It sure never came apart at all. I hope I have as much luck with my titanium, although I can tell it's pretty thin when I thump it with my fingernail. I'll tell you what, though: with those Jesse luggage racks in place, nothing is going to touch that muffler no matter which way I park the bike!
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:39 AM   #160
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Aluminum doesn't really corrode too easily. It takes quite a bit to make it do so actually:
http://www.keytometals.com/Article14.htm

Corrosion resistance of aluminum.

And the type of carbon fiber that is used on motorcycle exhaust just plain doesn't corrode:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fiber

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_...forced_polymer

I'm not sure the aerospace industry would build entire airliners that carry hundreds of passengers out of aluminum alloys and carbon fiber if they would constantly corrode.

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The Griz screwed with this post 05-11-2010 at 10:55 AM Reason: More info.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:46 AM   #161
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Is that a fly rod strapped to back of your bike? Good man.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:31 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Fireman
Very interesting about that carbon fiber problem...I have not only seen the pictures but several scary looking shattered seatposts in the shop...and you're right, Trek was learning the hard way how to use CF. I didn't know the blistering was caused by moisture. Maybe because they just took a long CF tube and cut it into lengths for the frame pieces, instead of sealing the ends of the tubes like you would if you laid each one up individually?

I do remember having a long conversation with the US Remus rep when I was buying that carbon fiber exhaust. He mentioned that UV was the only real threat to their CF material, and that I might see a gradual change in the tint of the muffler over time. I guess it might have gotten a little more "golden" colored, but not bad at all. I will say that I got that thing absolutely filthy (coast to coast without a bath) a couple times and it always cleaned up easy. It sure never came apart at all. I hope I have as much luck with my titanium, although I can tell it's pretty thin when I thump it with my fingernail. I'll tell you what, though: with those Jesse luggage racks in place, nothing is going to touch that muffler no matter which way I park the bike!
Yeppers.... Those seat post must have been scary. I kept mine aluminum..... I mentioned moisture, because in a abrasive ( not just literally) environment.....That is what is the dynamic`s of it..... The trick is in the bonding, and degassing.....specially when working with epoxies.... Polyesters are thinner, and gas entrapment is almost null and void...... But that`s a whole other chapter.... UV penetrating rays will give your CF a very slight golden brown`ish sheen....but not very much. It is the polymers in the resin reacting. As we all know....The hot sun will destroy about every thing non metallic over time....... But the makers of CF for the industry, are usually good protecting it with a top coat of uv inhibitor. If you see a distinctive brownish tint this early..... I would suspect heat stress as a factor rather than uv breakdown. When either polyester or epoxy get`s exposed to high heat..... Should we just say above their tolerances...( they vary)....the color changes to a brown tint, that is irreversible. Last year I build a complete muffler for my DS, from the ground up...( pictured above) and a lot of planing has to go in to the selection of resin...etc....
Just finished a prototype CF heat shield.....


The heat exposure on the header is around 300 deg. F, wheras the pipe only sustains 220 deg. F...... As a general rule... as you engeneer resins ( epoxy) to be of high heat tolerance....they will stray from they somewhat clear tint....towards a yellowish tint.........Phew.....off to pour a shot of espresso.....

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Old 05-11-2010, 11:35 AM   #163
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Is that a fly rod strapped to back of your bike? Good man.
He-he...... It`s my fav. spinning rod....in disguise..... On the gothic road above Crested Butte, CO on the way up to a few streams to relax while chasing trouts.


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Old 05-11-2010, 04:28 PM   #164
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I'm not sure the aerospace industry would build entire airliners that carry hundreds of passengers out of aluminum alloys and carbon fiber if they would constantly corrode.
Trust me, aerospace alloys (aluminum included) corrode just fine. If they didn't, I'd be out of a job...

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Old 05-11-2010, 05:33 PM   #165
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Trust me, aerospace alloys (aluminum included) corrode just fine. If they didn't, I'd be out of a job...

Thor
Thank goodnes for alodine.....

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