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Old 12-12-2012, 10:47 PM   #15526
Jayrod1318
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Originally Posted by bump View Post
Perhaps you are thinking of the L instead of the R because Honda lists the current CRF450X at 269 pounds and I think the XR650R was listed at 277 with most magazines saying the XRR weight was 280ish. The L though is usually listed about 350 so that would be a huge difference. If one is comparing the 650L to the 450X then it's not a fair comparison IMHO.

I would say the two bikes have three major differences: Ergos, power characteristics, and maintenance.

The CRF feels much newer and slimmer. If you are an average sized guy then the CRF will feel better most likely. If you are a bigger guy then the XRR will likely feel better.

The XRR has more power and more fun power. The power is down low and in the mid where it is usable. Adding parts to create the Bob Bell engine make it giant fun to ride. You could ride about anything in 3rd gear if you wanted. Naturally, the 450 is at a disadvantage here against the XRR's 50% more cubes. The XRR will feel (seat) and look (plastic) just a tad old school. That said, the sort of riding you plan to do may be the best indicator of which bike is best. The 650 is simply a bike that requires little maintenance and if you run OEM filters and do basic maintenance like valves then I think the engine could easily go 50,000 miles and I'd reckon that is several times more than the CRF will go. Bob Bell told me that they really didn't need to take apart the 650 after any of the races including the 1000 and they only did it because they had Honda in charge. He said that engine would easily race all the events they could enter without a problem.

If you buy the CRF you must install the stainless valves but not much more to have a great bike.

The big XRR is very rideable stock IMHO but for less than a grand you can recreate the 1X engine.

I'd guess that if a license plate is valuable to you then you will find more XRRs plated than CRF450Xs. Also, know that the 2009-2012 CRF450X/R were considered a bad chassis. I think Honda still races the '07 chassis.

I think a better companion bike or comparison bike to the XR650R is the current KX450. I'd get the MX bike and change the gearing. I'd recreate the bike THR is using in the 1000 currently. Last month I drive Phil and Ryan down to Ensenada to drop off the THR 8X bike at the hotel before the 1000. We had alot of time and we talked about the differences between the Honda 1X XR650R that won everything for many years which Bob Bell developed, the current Honda 450 that JCR races which was developed by Bob Bell before Ogilvie died, and the current KX450 THR races also developed by Bob Bell. One thing is clear every time I talk with real racers (of which I am NOT) and that is that less weight is nearly always better in every way.

Also depends on your budget... I've seen very clean stock XR650Rs for $1500 lately. I bought one that was little used for $600 recently complete, running, and with a few accessories. So for $5K you can have a decent 450X, a full on 1X XR650R with cash left over, or part of a Precision Concepts KX450.

If you are looking for a dirt only bike and want the most fun then a newish Yamaha YZ250 is impossible to beat. They are very light, have great power, have better suspension stock than any other motorcycle in the world, are almost free to maintain, have lots of aftermarket parts like 150 watt stators ( a guy in Washington State is making them now), large gas tanks and weigh 60lbs less than any 450, are a third the weight of what these hugely stupid European fire road sleds weigh, and will make you a much better rider on any Sunday because of the light weight. I think the 2011 YZ250 are 211lbs!

If you choose the Honda 450 then here is a useful article: http://powersports.honda.com/experie...080a4a0dd.aspx

Congrats on avoiding the GSTurds and going for a real dirt bike instead of the pencil protector version of women driving Mercedes SUV/Minivans in Beverly Hills. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
I feel enlightened after having read that. A YZ250.... Hmmmm
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:42 AM   #15527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
The big XRR is very rideable stock IMHO but for less than a grand you can recreate the 1X engine.
I am currently doing just this, but would love to know where you can get an HRC kit for less than a grand.....?
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:24 AM   #15528
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Originally Posted by Singletrack Gardener View Post
Funny, I just did this the other week. I ran it for a while, I have done it before on my 2T and ran it for a while mainly due to laziness. They are not welded on, hopefully you can get some vise grips around what is left of the stud and pull it out. It's like a $2 part so just replace it instead of constantly having to worry about it on the trail.

I believe the proper torque is 8 ft-lbs. I was just too lazy to bust out the torque wrench and figured I could tell by hand. Was I wrong
Thanks for the heads up on this, was not sure if they were welded or what.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:16 AM   #15529
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Originally Posted by Lostsaffa View Post
I am currently doing just this, but would love to know where you can get an HRC kit for less than a grand.....?
Didn't the 1x motor run just the cam, and uncorking mods with no piston change? That is doable for 1,000 right?
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:17 PM   #15530
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Originally Posted by medisyn View Post
Didn't the 1x motor run just the cam, and uncorking mods with no piston change? That is doable for 1,000 right?
Yes and probably.

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Old 12-13-2012, 01:25 PM   #15531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medisyn View Post
Didn't the 1x motor run just the cam, and uncorking mods with no piston change? That is doable for 1,000 right?
I just spent well over $2k on my motor and didn't have to buy cam or HRC internal (they were already there). The big expense for me was my Falicon crank/rod assembly at $800 to address the weak big end bearing in the stock setup. I did all disassembly and reassembly myself. The only labor I paid for was bore job, valve job, and the aforementioned crank job. If you have a stock bike in good condition and plan to reuse all parts other than what would be replaced by HRC kit parts then you could probably come in under $1000k. I replaced my valves, springs, clutch, bearings, etc. while I was in there so it started adding up fast.

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Old 12-13-2012, 03:32 PM   #15532
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In reality there were many things done to the 1x bike that were confidential. I have tried getting information out of Team Honda but they are still playing their cards close to their chests 7yrs after the XR's raced. There was head work like polishing/porting that was done apparently and then the HRC kit minus the piston which created issues when run on race fuel so they left that out. Then to complement the engine there was the batwing in the airbox, carb hose into airbox relocation etc.

I guess by using just the basic aftermarket bits to replicate the HRC kit you could get close to $1k. Ultimately I am convinced there are a few more mods that were carried out but never spoken of.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:23 PM   #15533
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The head on my Campbell bike was ported, polished, and decked down as far as you could go without it affecting the valve seats so I know they do at least some head work.

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Old 12-13-2012, 08:38 PM   #15534
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Or a YZ450

If he is really focused on a 4 stroke then the Yamaha 450s are by far the most dependable and also have the best suspension.

Quote:
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I feel enlightened after having read that. A YZ250.... Hmmmm
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:43 PM   #15535
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You don't need the kit

All you need is the HRC cam, the porting, and the pipe. The pipe can be had used for $100-$300. The porting is $300. And all you need from the HRC kit is the cam. You don't need any of the other parts, especially the cam related parts. Just check the cam chain for stretch every 5K or 10K miles. Then there are the little things like the vented panel and Batwing and a few other minor parts but those are all very cheap. There are a few works parts out there but they won't make any difference.

I've know two guys who bought the HRC kit off guys who bought them new but never installed them. Then they sold all the parts of the kit except the cam and voila; they had a free HRC cam.

If you are patient the pipe and the head do show up used for sale. Most sellers don't know what they have. I bought one of the 1X heads from a guy a few years ago for $60 or $70 dollars. I bought a Batwing earlier this year for $35 including the airbox and another three years ago for $10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostsaffa View Post
I am currently doing just this, but would love to know where you can get an HRC kit for less than a grand.....?

bump screwed with this post 12-13-2012 at 08:49 PM
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:56 PM   #15536
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There were three basic pieces

There are three basic pieces to the 1X engine: HRC Cam, the porting through Bob's friend, and the HRC piston. Each one brings the same increase in power. The HRC piston changed the nature of the power and wasn't used much. When it was used it was milled down for Chevron and Pemex premium and was sort of a high desert setup.

Then there are the smaller pieces that support this setup like the pipe, Batwing, vented panel, breather kit and so forth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by medisyn View Post
Didn't the 1x motor run just the cam, and uncorking mods with no piston change? That is doable for 1,000 right?
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:07 PM   #15537
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I think this is more legend...

This bike was Ogilvie's baby so he'd be the one to know it all and he's gone.

Ogilvie tried alot of parts and some were works stuff and some were just ideas that he had private shops in So Cal produce. So if you talk to Ty Davis you'll hear about a special emulsion tube but no one else knows about that. If you talk to some other guy you'll find a works air boot. If you talk to Bob Bell you will learn a few things like his buddy doing all the porting. And Jonah Street's buddy in Washington coming up with the Batwing. And so forth.

I think the reality is the bike was just too much when it was setup as fast as possible. I've mentioned this before on here but Campbell himself said it tended to come out from underneath him with the HRC piston.

Also, Honda never wanted to make the bike in the first place and they scrubbed most of the pages about it from the powersports.honda.com site after the Bob sorted out the 450.

Not to step on any toes here but like Caselli says sure Honda has been dominating Baja but against who exactly? The big XRR really didn't need to be that fast. If Kawi and their KX500 teams were still doing the Score races when the XR650R was in its prime then I think the big XRR would have won far fewer races. And it may have forced Kawi to update the KX500 as well and what a beautiful world that would be. Just my opinion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostsaffa View Post
In reality there were many things done to the 1x bike that were confidential. I have tried getting information out of Team Honda but they are still playing their cards close to their chests 7yrs after the XR's raced. There was head work like polishing/porting that was done apparently and then the HRC kit minus the piston which created issues when run on race fuel so they left that out. Then to complement the engine there was the batwing in the airbox, carb hose into airbox relocation etc.

I guess by using just the basic aftermarket bits to replicate the HRC kit you could get close to $1k. Ultimately I am convinced there are a few more mods that were carried out but never spoken of.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:12 PM   #15538
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2004 Xr650R

Picked up this 2004 XR650R a few months ago. Love it! Hoping to grease the swing arm and steering over the winter. Also want to check the valves, install heavier shock spring.

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Old 12-13-2012, 09:21 PM   #15539
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05 wr exhaust = xr650r exhaust

I'm going to modify a 05 wr450 muffler to my XRR.

Any objections form the peanut gallery?

The plan is too use the pipe from my big gun and weld it to the wr muffler, that way the only change that will need to happen is on the muffler is the mounting tab on the can.


The whole thing is not very heavy and looks way better than the stock xr muffler.

Any thoughts?
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:36 PM   #15540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
All you need is the HRC cam, the porting, and the pipe. The pipe can be had used for $100-$300. The porting is $300. And all you need from the HRC kit is the cam. You don't need any of the other parts, especially the cam related parts. Just check the cam chain for stretch every 5K or 10K miles. Then there are the little things like the vented panel and Batwing and a few other minor parts but those are all very cheap. There are a few works parts out there but they won't make any difference.

I've know two guys who bought the HRC kit off guys who bought them new but never installed them. Then they sold all the parts of the kit except the cam and voila; they had a free HRC cam.

If you are patient the pipe and the head do show up used for sale. Most sellers don't know what they have. I bought one of the 1X heads from a guy a few years ago for $60 or $70 dollars. I bought a Batwing earlier this year for $35 including the airbox and another three years ago for $10.
I have the race pipe, but had to use XR's only headers as the owner didn't want to part with the full system.....no matter how much I begged! very few headers fit the muffler join as it was smaller than stock (smaller than all other PC headers too). I have searched the planet for a full PC race system and got nothing, it would be like winning the lottery to find one for sale these days - but like you say the ones that sell are sold by people who have no idea how rare they are!

As mine is a replica build I really want to find everything, even the small works parts, otherwise it defeats the point really.
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