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Old 01-04-2013, 01:50 PM   #15676
ZXRaziel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
Ricky Stator uses a cheaper stator; Chinese stuff. Baja Designs uses the Honda stator - that is why they cost more. You have to get past this idea that everything is a commodity. Baja Designs will use the cheap Chinese stuff when it meets their standards, as they often do in their 8" HID race lights instead of the German stuff, especially if it is going to an amateur setup.

If your stator goes you are f'kd. There's no trail side repair on that. And who among us carries a spare? You won't be so stoked about the measly $50 you saved then.
I dont think that Baja designs are still selling the xr 650 r stator , sadly . Sending your own to someone for rewind or ricky stator ,... or ?
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:34 PM   #15677
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I dont get why a RickyStator being made in china would effect its quality at all. Its just a plastic ring and some wire. Mine looks every bit as good as the OEM one. I don't see how it would suddenly break and I have never seen anybody complain about a failure.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:40 PM   #15678
RideFreak
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I should probably change my statement about the side covers, "At altitude they are much more than bling." I don't ride at sea level so I cant make an informed judgment on that. All of our riding it at least 4K' and is usally at 5K~10K', sometimes up as high as 13K' on ocassion. There are routes I sometimes take where I want the sidecover vents closed due to the depth of water crossings so I duct tape them closed and essentially have a stock sidecover. As a result I get to feel the system closed and open within min of each other. Is it quantifable? No, can you feet it, most definately and the difference is very noticable. An yes, at alt we try and get as much air into the bike as possible due to low O2 content, the more air we can get in results in less of an impact on bike's jetting, even differences in airfilter oils can be felt much at altitude. As for running them less at alt, that's not so, I live on the edge of a high desert and have plenty of 5th gear WFO straights and arroyos where the bike gets run hard. Up here the bikes make less HP at alt so if anything, they probably get abused more. Not sure what you mean by the noise, I haven't detected a difference in intake noise from the sidecover mod, there might be some but it's minimal.

My question to you is have you ever ran the two covers back to back? Possibly there is no diff at sealevel although I've heard there is, you should try it. I've never run my XRR down at SL but have almost 10K mi of use at 5K'+. If you're running a TM40 the difference in covers is more pronounced, enough that it will benifits from a 1 size (2.5) bump to the mj.

I can appreciate you loyalty to BD, sounds like they have gone out of their way to help you out, that speaks well for them. You're lucky to have that resource. But it shouldn't diminish the customer service or product that RS sells, both have also been proven. BD supports racing and their DS kits, RS supports a much wider range of vehicles and have been doing so for years quite successfully. As for the cheap chineese materials, the trigger/pulser coil you recieve with a RS is a new Honda OE unit, ether they are sourcing them from Japan or Honda is getting their parts in China, ether way they work well and for far more than the ocassional weekend ride. What are you basing the RS cheap quality reference on? Look on this thread or the XRR Electricity thread, there's allot of RS customers here, BD also. The only stator failures I've heard of were with the OE unit. I don't remember any with a RS or BD unit. I've heard of the BD reg/rect going out but that's becaused it's current rating is at the low end for our use, everyone pretty much knows that and uses the RS variant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
On one hand we have your opinion which I respect as I have read many of your posts on here over a long time and you have alot of them. Moreover you are quick to lend a hand and stick your neck out offering advice and information when others do not. I commend you for that and do so publicly. There are alot of guys on here with this bike who are a very long ways from So Cal and also don't have a mechanic nearby who knows anything about this bike, which can be a bit quirky. So having a guy like you on here who is careful with people and also conscious of keeping costs down is great.

But in this case I have your opinion in one hand and Bob Bell's opinion in the other. So whose opinion am I gonna take? A nice and knowledgeable guy on this forum, or the guy who, with Bruce Ogilvie, developed the parts of which you and I speak?

Of course alot of vendors sell RS stuff as they are essentially the low price leader and America is nothing if not immersed in Wal-Mart culture. But being the cheapest comes with caveats and I've clearly listed the caveats. If you are a guy who rides several times during the summer and then stores the bike for eight or nine months a year then perhaps cutting some corners on quality and cost makes sense to you. However, every buyer should be fully aware of the tradeoff he is making and your post implies the products are the same, as in a commodity, which they are clearly not.

For many the RS is the smarter choice. It's the same with boats; don't treat them like you will have them until you die. But you are not including all the facts and the two stators are not the same and the price difference isn't significant.

The Customer Service at Baja Designs is one of the strongest selling points IMHO. They have fixed alot of my crap and never charged me for anything but parts. They always answer the phone and I can speak with their technical guy every time and he is very patient with me. When I go to the shop in San Marcos they are very friendly and helpful and I assure you I am nobody to them.

How does the vented panel work better at higher altitudes where the air is less dense, has less O2, and generally the riding is slower; as in less wide open? I've never heard that before and it seems at first reading to be counter-intuitive. And I don't want to offend anyone but a louder side panel and a louder pipe and louder muffler does not equal more power and speed. There are guys out here who have bought new XR650Rs just before a race or on their way to a race and done very well.

So the OPs riding would benefit much more from a safety improvement (peg fix) and a more comfy seat as the Big XRR has the worst seat this side of a Supercross bike. Especially since he said the bike was for a guy who will be riding a little in the summers. The performance parts listed are a waste of money for a bike to be ridden occasionally in the woods of Canada. I will admit that all the extra noise from the parts might have an added benefit for scaring off bears.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:43 PM   #15679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXRaziel View Post
I dont think that Baja designs are still selling the xr 650 r stator , sadly . Sending your own to someone for rewind or ricky stator ,... or ?

BD rewinds the stator, for years I have heard they are better. True I dont know?

Stator Rewind, XR650R

12-6012







Stator comes stock with 4 of the 10 potential poles wound with a lighting coil.We rewind these stators as dual-outputs of 125w per output(2 lighting coils instead of 1) for 250w total.When run with one of our dual-sport kits,one output is used to power the headlight exclusively on its own AC circuit.The remaining output is used to charge the battery and power the rest of the kit.If you have a new dual sport kit you must also order a relay.Requires left side case modification to make room for the beefed up coils. Does not require a flywheel puller.Dry stator.





Ricky stator, I have had in my bike for ten years maybe 35,000+ miles. smells bad but still works. and I did pack my stock stator in my gear bag for the first few months.

both are good if i do it again, I will go Baja for cleaner power. I have never thought the power from the ricky is clean down low in the rpm's.
Bert
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:51 PM   #15680
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Bump,

Please step up and share a real, first hand example of how RS's stators are cheap and fail prone. And I ask that respectfully. My comments are based on the two RS stators that I have installed, both on Hondas. The first was my cousin's 600R, and most recently my 650R. In addition to off road duties, my 650R is ridden daily as a commuter running one 200W DC leg, which supplies a Cyclops Rally light with 90W low beam, grip heaters, and other stuff. At last count, the RS stator has 10,000 or so miles on it without any failures, rain or shine, freezing or sweltering.

That's my real world experience (apart from RS's excellent customer service), and that's why I recommended an RS stator to the OP.

And hey, if you come back and bring some real world, honest to goodness tech on why RS stators are bad, then I just might yank mine out buy a BD stator. But until then, it's not going to happen. And again, I say this respectfully.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
Ricky Stator uses a cheaper stator; Chinese stuff. Baja Designs uses the Honda stator - that is why they cost more. You have to get past this idea that everything is a commodity. Baja Designs will use the cheap Chinese stuff when it meets their standards, as they often do in their 8" HID race lights instead of the German stuff, especially if it is going to an amateur setup.

If your stator goes you are f'kd. There's no trail side repair on that. And who among us carries a spare? You won't be so stoked about the measly $50 you saved then.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:54 PM   #15681
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+1

I do have my side cover drilled out at sea level and the bike is so much better that way. if I tape it up thinking it needs than at some point I pull the tape and am happier. the jetting is set up for more air flow. the xxr never run right till i drilled the holes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
I should probably change my statement about the side covers, "At altitude they are much more than bling." I don't ride at sea level so I cant make an informed judgment on that. All of our riding it at least 4K' ans is usally at 5K~10K', sometimes up as high as 13K' on ocassion. There are routes sometimes taken where I want the sidecover vents closed due to the depth of water crossings, I duct tape them closed and essentially have a stock sidecover. As a result I get to feel the system closed and open within min of each other. Is it quantifable? No, can you feet it, most definately and the difference is very noticable. An yes, at alt we try and get as much air into the bike as possible due to low O2, even differences in airfilter oil can be felt much of the time.

My question to you is have you ever ran the two covers back to back? Possibly there is no diff at sealevel although I've hear there is. I've never run my XRR down there but have almost 10K miles of use at 5K'+. If one is running a TM40 the difference in covers make is more pronounced, enough that it benifits from a slight bump to the jetting. There is a difference in airflow.

I can appreciate you loyalty to BD, sounds like they have gone out of their way to help you out, that's a big plus for them and you're lucky to have that. But it shouldn't diminish the customer service or product that RS sells. BD supports racing and their DS kits, RS supports the entire industry and happen doing so for years quite successfully. As for the cheap chineese materials, the trigger/pulser coil you recieve with a RS is a new Honda OE unit. Ether they are sourcing them from Japan or Honda is getting their parts in China, ether way they work well and for far more than the ocassional weekend ride.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:11 PM   #15682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigNastybrp View Post
BD rewinds the stator, for years I have heard they are better. True I dont know?

Stator Rewind, XR650R

12-6012









Stator comes stock with 4 of the 10 potential poles wound with a lighting coil.We rewind these stators as dual-outputs of 125w per output(2 lighting coils instead of 1) for 250w total.When run with one of our dual-sport kits,one output is used to power the headlight exclusively on its own AC circuit.The remaining output is used to charge the battery and power the rest of the kit.If you have a new dual sport kit you must also order a relay.Requires left side case modification to make room for the beefed up coils. Does not require a flywheel puller.Dry stator.





Ricky stator, I have had in my bike for ten years maybe 35,000+ miles. smells bad but still works. and I did pack my stock stator in my gear bag for the first few months.

both are good if i do it again, I will go Baja for cleaner power. I have never thought the power from the ricky is clean down low in the rpm's.
Bert
How clean the power is has nothing to do with the stator, it's what's connected behind it that determines that.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:24 PM   #15683
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Physics

So, by your thinking, if someone was climbing Everest all they'd need to get more O2 into their lungs is a bigger mouth?

BD uses the Honda stator and RS uses a Chinese stator. They are different and please by all means do not take my word for it. Google it or call BD for some schooling.



Quote:
Originally Posted by seabee1 View Post
so, aside from the price, how exactly are they "clearly" not the same?

when you go up in altitude, the O2 gets less, so you need to let more in. hence the opened up air box.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:30 PM   #15684
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Nice try.

Everything I've had back at BD is because I broke it. There was a guy on one of the forums a few years ago who had the motor go out on his BD electric starter and they sent him another one. Period. So I don't really know people who've had problems with BD customer service.

I had it shown to me at a shop when I was buying a stator and they insisted I get mine Honda stator rewound at BD.

There are guys who will go with the cheaper option no matter what you are one of those guys Ron so it's useless information to you. We simply do not maintain our bikes the same way. You are not as bothered as I am by stuff breaking when I am out using it be that a boat, bike, or car.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt. Ron View Post
I think I understand that you have had great customer service with Baja Designs. They've even replaced parts for you, with you only paying for value of the parts. But I didn't read where you had any facts that prove that BD stators are better than Ricky Stators. About all I get from your post is no mention of RS failures, only BD failures. So while you may believe that Baja Designs stuff is better, all you've proved is that you like their customer service and you like stopping by their shop and giving them your money. And I have a Baja Designs stator, by the way.

And if the shit hits the fan with either lighting coil, your day isn't over. As long as the ignition coil is still working, the bike will still run without lights. Works for me.

As for the vented plate issue, yes there are altitudes where it's still wide open. Utah and Colorado come to mind. Rode the XRR to Utah myself. Sad to say that I suffered more than the bike with the lack of O2. I'll agree that without some dyno time with exhaust gas analyzer feedback, just bolting on an exhaust and sidecover will not necessarily give you extra ponies.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:48 PM   #15685
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Bump,

I'm still waiting for your real world examples of RS stator failures.

Thanks, and have a great weekend!
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:49 PM   #15686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
Everything I've had back at BD is because I broke it. There was a guy on one of the forums a few years ago who had the motor go out on his BD electric starter and they sent him another one. Period. So I don't really know people who've had problems with BD customer service.

I had it shown to me at a shop when I was buying a stator and they insisted I get mine Honda stator rewound at BD.

There are guys who will go with the cheaper option no matter what you are one of those guys Ron so it's useless information to you. We simply do not maintain our bikes the same way. You are not as bothered as I am by stuff breaking when I am out using it be that a boat, bike, or car.
So, again, you mention bd stuff breaking. But if they replace their defective parts everything's ok and it's a great product. Now I get it.

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Old 01-04-2013, 07:54 PM   #15687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
So, by your thinking, if someone was climbing Everest all they'd need to get more O2 into their lungs is a bigger mouth?
.
No, my point is there's a restriction, minimize that and it runs better, the higher you go the richer it runs, if you can't see that lessening that restriction will help than I just need to shut up. Pretty hard to dispute back to back comparisons that occur moments apart.

It's just my opinion but I know what works for me.

BD rewinds the Honda stator, quality is determined by the company doing the rewind, same with the RS stuff, it may come from china, that doesn't automatically equal poor quality. I would agree with you if there was a history of failures in their units, I don't see it. In fact I've got on on an xr400 that's stator is on it's second bike. Is bd better, possibly, is the RS stuff crap, no. Because I use RS components does that mean you maintain your bike better, hardly.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:23 PM   #15688
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Quote:
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BLAH BLAH BLAH
Nice try? Did you not understand my questions? And where do starters fall into this particular discussion? I'll paraphrase what I said earlier. You like Baja Designs Customer Service (not relevant to the quality of Ricky Stator, by the way, only YOU brought it up). You claim Ricky Stators fail more than Baja Designs stators....show some stats. Pretty pretty please.

And somehow because I call you out on this, now I'm cheap? How does this relate to the questions asked of your statements regarding the quality of Ricky Stator stators? You do remember that you made statements regarding quality of particular vendors, and people like me asked you to prove it, right? I happen to have a Baja Designs stator on my bike (reading comprehension, try it ). I haven't had a stator fail on any of my bikes, so there is no evidence that I am NOT bothered by that. But I'm cheap because I asked you to prove your statements?

Nice mud slinging.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:40 PM   #15689
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So try this new thing call "Google"!

Since a list of people I know wouldn't be a valid sample use Google. Really?

https://www.google.com/search?q=prob...ient=firefox-a

Quote:
Originally Posted by dohcfox View Post
Bump,

I'm still waiting for your real world examples of RS stator failures.

Thanks, and have a great weekend!
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:49 PM   #15690
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i agree on that

But I am thinking that because the air is less dense the same volume of air will be drawn through the same intake filter with less restriction. Wouldn't that mean there would be a faster/quicker pass thru for the same volume of air? The volumes filling the airbox and the cylinder will be the same but with less air and less O2. There's no way around that without precompressing the air is there? Again, I'd have to think this through or ask someone who knows this stuff better than I to explain it to me. Perhaps that expert is you or perhaps I am more dense than the air is on this.

I agree on the quality of stuff with China. You can get stuff at the level of quality Boeing uses or you can get shit or anything inbetween. My understanding is that Ricky Stator's market position from the beginning when there still was a Ricky is to sell stators cheaper than Honda/Yamaha/etc. Since they will never beat OEMs on volume they have to find another way. What other way is there other than cheaper components? I did not ask what delta is on the life of these things.

The guys who told me this are guys I trust and guys I've not yet seen wrong about any of this stuff on this bike so I believe them. There has been several times I have tried to buy stuff from them that I thought I needed and they told me I didn't need them and why. So they have alot of integrity with me. I don't think they drink the OEM or Honda or BD Kool-Aid either. Not to repeat myself but when I went in for a stator I asked for the RS because I was spending alot of cabbage and it was adding up. So some of the work I put off, some of the parts I waited to find used, and some I asked about getting a cheaper version - like RS. That is when the conversation happened and like four guys in the shop chimed in and all had their stories about why BD was the only way they'd go. If they'd sold me the Ricky Stator they'd have made money off the deal and instead they talked me into the BD stator and made nothing. Later I ran it all past a relative who is an electrical engineer who works daily with Japan and China and he explained to me how money would be easily saved on making a stator by using cheaper metals, cheaper copper, cheaper...

Also, the tone of my remarks toward some fuktard are not the tone I'd use with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
No, my point is there's a restriction, minimize that and it runs better, the higher you go the richer it runs, if you can't see that lessening that restriction will help than I just need to shut up. Pretty hard to dispute back to back comparisons that occur moments apart.

It's just my opinion but I know what works for me.

BD rewinds the Honda stator, quality is determined by the company doing the rewind, same with the RS stuff, it may come from china, that doesn't automatically equal poor quality. I would agree with you if there was a history of failures in their units, I don't see it. In fact I've got on on an xr400 that's stator is on it's second bike. Is bd better, possibly, is the RS stuff crap, no. Because I use RS components does that mean you maintain your bike better, hardly.

bump screwed with this post 01-04-2013 at 09:31 PM
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