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Old 06-13-2013, 08:49 AM   #17266
Cpt. Ron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OR Trail View Post
Thank you for the replies. I re-checked my work. I rotated the back wheel a couple of cycles. With the piston at the top, and valves decompressed, valve clearances checked out. The "T" mark on the flywheel didn't line up though. When the T is at the top, visible in the sight hole) the valves are tight - on both cycles. Bike starts and runs great. I strongly suspect that the flywheel is oriented upside down (was probably pulled and reinstalled at a different point in its rotation). Is this possible? If so is it worth worrying about?
I don't think the flywheel can put on wrong. There is a woodruff key to position the flywheel on the crankshaft. If your timing mark and cams are out of sequence, it's due to the camchain and cam sprockets. They could be one tooth off and still run.

To verify the real TDC, put a long screwdriver or stick down the spark plug hole. Gently rotate the flywheel (or rear wheel while in a high gear) counter clockwise. While doing this, be careful you don't jam your stick/screwdriver in the spark plug hole. When the piston is at the top of the stroke at TDC, I'm sure you'll find the timing mark on the flywheel is correct. Now remove the valve cover (not just the valve adjustment ports) and verify that the sprocket/cam is aligned properly with the top of the head at TDC. There should be two marks on the sprocket that show this.
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:20 AM   #17267
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Due to our terrain, all my dual sport buddies except two ride MX/Trail bikes. The other two are on a KTM 690 and another XRR.

This weekend I'll be doing a couple day dual sport ride. I'll be on the biggest and heaviest bike. We'll see how that goes. Next closest is a Husaberg 570, then a couple 450's and a 350. It's held it's own in the past on local rides, Moab, Baja, etc so I should be good.

I'll see if I can get some good pictures. We're still limited with snow blocking most passes, but I imagine we're going to check them out and see how far we can make it.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:11 AM   #17268
Chris_W_65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OR Trail View Post
Thank you for the replies. I re-checked my work. I rotated the back wheel a couple of cycles. With the piston at the top, and valves decompressed, valve clearances checked out. The "T" mark on the flywheel didn't line up though. When the T is at the top, visible in the sight hole) the valves are tight - on both cycles. Bike starts and runs great. I strongly suspect that the flywheel is oriented upside down (was probably pulled and reinstalled at a different point in its rotation). Is this possible? If so is it worth worrying about?
Did you rotate the rear wheel backwards? As far as I know you have to turn the engine backwards at least 2 cycles to make sure the auto decompressor is disengaged?
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:40 AM   #17269
Shibby!
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Originally Posted by Chris_W_65 View Post
Did you rotate the rear wheel backwards? As far as I know you have to turn the engine backwards at least 2 cycles to make sure the auto decompressor is disengaged?

You have to turn it FORWARDS. As if the bike was going forward.

Otherwise the auto decomp kicks in. It stops the kicker from wacking you in the leg on non-starts.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:41 AM   #17270
OR Trail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt. Ron View Post
I don't think the flywheel can put on wrong. There is a woodruff key to position the flywheel on the crankshaft. If your timing mark and cams are out of sequence, it's due to the camchain and cam sprockets. They could be one tooth off and still run.

To verify the real TDC, put a long screwdriver or stick down the spark plug hole. Gently rotate the flywheel (or rear wheel while in a high gear) counter clockwise. While doing this, be careful you don't jam your stick/screwdriver in the spark plug hole. When the piston is at the top of the stroke at TDC, I'm sure you'll find the timing mark on the flywheel is correct. Now remove the valve cover (not just the valve adjustment ports) and verify that the sprocket/cam is aligned properly with the top of the head at TDC. There should be two marks on the sprocket that show this.
Thanks. I verified the piston was at the top of the stroke with a stick, and it didn't correspond with the timing mark. I'll pull the valve cover completely and get the flywheel cover off. It sounds like something else may be off.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:45 AM   #17271
larryboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OR Trail View Post
Valves adjusted just fine with that method, and runs fine.

Thanks for any insight.

All done, go for a ride. I never check timing marks on any engine, just rotate the engine any damn direction you want, make sure the valves are closed and check the gaps, adjust as needed.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:14 AM   #17272
FREGOLA
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Italy coast to coast

From West coast to est coast with an XR650R, 1100km in three days..




























In one picture you can see the memorial stone for Fabrizio Meoni, at the top of his village..
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:39 AM   #17273
stevh0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibby! View Post
I should also mention that I have the Trailtech Race Light. Not the Baja Designs.

It's the Halogen model with a 35 W HID kit in it. No point going 50W unless you want to pay for the proper bulbs which are not cheap. DDM tuning is my kit. I think it was like 40$. Has worked flawless for years of abuse.

I got the whitest light, but would almost want to venture into the yellow temperature next time. 4300? I think mines around 4500/4800k.

I have the same problem with my LED lightbar. The light is almost too white.
Even the 6000k hid china kits are nasty. Id like to also move closer to 4300.
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:39 PM   #17274
BuRPsa
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OR,

I'd take LB's advise.
Keep in mind that the ignition's timing block (which triggers the ignition pulse) sits on the flywheel/rotor, and if it is 'off position' as you say then it follows the ignition has to be too - but you say it runs, or runs well?
The flywheel is (woodruff)keyed to the crank, and unless the key or slots are damaged there's no way for it to misalign - unless it is a different flywheel off another bike, not impossible but a bit remote.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:04 PM   #17275
b45her
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuRPsa View Post
Jason, sure that's a metric bolt? Looks a bit funny, too course thread...
I'd use a bolt & nyloc nut, won't come loose.




How long is a piece of string? It's fuggered, get a new one - anbd yeah, that's a lot of work, but work during which I would replace every seal & bearing also because you're in there anyway - but that's just me
Thanks for the reply.. I thought as much but just wanted to try get the summers riding done before I strip it down
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:26 PM   #17276
OR Trail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuRPsa View Post
OR,

I'd take LB's advise.
Keep in mind that the ignition's timing block (which triggers the ignition pulse) sits on the flywheel/rotor, and if it is 'off position' as you say then it follows the ignition has to be too - but you say it runs, or runs well?
The flywheel is (woodruff)keyed to the crank, and unless the key or slots are damaged there's no way for it to misalign - unless it is a different flywheel off another bike, not impossible but a bit remote.
The bike's running well. I bought it from an inmate that does rally support for a living and has owned 4 of them - he thought it ran well. I rode it single track and 600+ miles of pavement with a hanging idle at the end of the ride, seemingly cured with the valve adjustment (but just a short ride on it to confirm). It pulls harder than the other thumpers I have owned / ridden, and purrs at idle too. Starts on the 2nd or 3rd kick. 40 MPG on the slab trip. Everything seems great except the mysterious "T" alignment.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:17 PM   #17277
crypto666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibby! View Post
I should also mention that I have the Trailtech Race Light. Not the Baja Designs.

It's the Halogen model with a 35 W HID kit in it. No point going 50W unless you want to pay for the proper bulbs which are not cheap. DDM tuning is my kit. I think it was like 40$. Has worked flawless for years of abuse.

I got the whitest light, but would almost want to venture into the yellow temperature next time. 4300? I think mines around 4500/4800k.

I have the same problem with my LED lightbar. The light is almost too white.

I am running the DDM 55w in a PIAA housing and it works well. I have about six of these HIDs in operation and have yet to burn up a bulb. I have been through a few ballasts, but its usually because something went south with the power supply. I am running the 3000K temp, and its still a really white light, the lower the temp the better they say. It seems that if you run them in a light that uses a lens and not just a reflector to control the pattern they work fairly well. You can play with the bulb mounting to "tune" it and see how the postiion changes the pattern.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:35 PM   #17278
jm-2008
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Or

[QUOTE=OR Trail;21636057]Thanks. I verified the piston was at the top of the stroke with a stick, and it didn't correspond with the timing mark. I'll pull the valve cover completely and get the flywheel cover off. It sounds like something else may be off.

OR
Much good avice from Capt Ron, Burpsa and others to get you sorted.
Bear in mind the T mark is very hard to see and usually wont stay put (magnets I think) unless held in position with socket and T bar.

Basic fundamentals for the engine to run correctly/well

Compression
Good fuel
Spark - in the right place

If all these are present and I suspect they are if as you say it runs well I'd wager flywheel position is correct.

Only times I have seen a flywheel spin on the shaft and shear the key has been on two strokes.
Whilst not impossible on the thumper not as likely.
Technical reasons aside if it was actually sheared and the flywheel moved to the wrong position you would likely experience chuffing/banging from the exhaust, backfiring from the carby and your right foot would be in pain!
The chances of the key shearing and the flywheel moving less than 10 degrees whilst not impossible is highly unlikely.

Elswhere in this thread you will find suggestions on various methods of setting valves, all good reading.

FWIW I have used the following method successfully on various bikes for decades
1) remove valve covers
2) turn off the ignition
3) slowly push down the kick starter by hand applying steady pressure until you see the inlet valves open (go down) then close (come up)

Note: at this point you will feel compression increase significantly at first as you are on the compression stroke, keep applying steady pressure and you will feel the piston coming up to TDC.
As it gets nearer TDC resistance will decrease, at this point ease off the amount of pressure applied to the kick starter and you will feel it 'bump' over TDC (very slightly), takes some practice but just let it bump over and stop pushing at that point

4) check and adjust the valves at this point

The cam followers will be on the cams base circle (opposite the lobe) at this point and you have a fair degree of lattitude (a few degrees) as to acceptable crank/cam position for adjusting the valves.

Sounds complicated when described step by step but actually takes less than a minute to do once you have the valve covers off.

Method works fine and helps you develop a 'FEEL' for whats going on inside the motor.
Also rotates the motor in the correct direction and alleviates issues with auto decomp mechanisms that some people experience.

Doubtless other inmates have methods that work equally as well for them that can be followed but this one works on all four stroke motors providing you have a kick starter, otherwise rotate with a socket & T bar on the crank.

Hope this is usefull and makes sense

Regards,
JM-2008

jm-2008 screwed with this post 06-13-2013 at 04:48 PM
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:24 PM   #17279
Jayrod1318
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I officially have no copper/bronze bits in my oil. I cut apart a filter last night and found nothing.

I'm going to skip this oil analysis and do one the next 1000 miles. Mostly Just to see if the rotella t6 synthetic holds up better.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:01 PM   #17280
OR Trail
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Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuRPsa View Post
OR,

I'd take LB's advise.
Keep in mind that the ignition's timing block (which triggers the ignition pulse) sits on the flywheel/rotor, and if it is 'off position' as you say then it follows the ignition has to be too - but you say it runs, or runs well?
The flywheel is (woodruff)keyed to the crank, and unless the key or slots are damaged there's no way for it to misalign - unless it is a different flywheel off another bike, not impossible but a bit remote.
I took the flywheel cover off and things checked out tonight. I may have just had trouble using the kickstarter, turning the wheel, etc. although the "T" in the sight hole wasn't working yesterday. With the cover off and using a wrench to turn the motor, with the advantage of seeing where the marking was on its way up, everything was as it is supposed to be. Maybe I shouldn't have tried a short cut on the first time checking the valves. Thanks for the input, and I'll be looking forward to riding instead of wrenching for the summer.
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