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Old 02-09-2009, 01:11 AM   #136
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amk
Giving all the respect to the charm that aforementioned automobiles provide for their honorable owners, I do expect that in reliability/build quality terms they loose for accords and such as 1 to 1000.
Actually, a friend of mine has a BMW X5. 4 years old, the thing rides and feels just as tight as the day he first bought it. The last time I rode in it with him was 3 years ago. The other day I sat down in the passenger seat and when we took off I was shocked at the fact that it felt and sounded like new. Hondas are reliable "where it counts" in the drive train. BMWs are reliable in the drive train as well as bumper to bumper, durable bumper to bumper, and will drive like new after ten years. As the owner of a Hyundai Accent and friend of many Honda Accord owners I can attest to this. My Accent is falling apart after 4 years. My KLR's were cheaply put together at the factory with cheap, weak fasteners. I had to upgrade almost every nut and bolt on the thing cuz they'd break from normal usage. As well as the fact that I had to do a ton of upgrades just to get it to ride well. My stock F800GS rides better than my farkled KLR by a long shot!
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Old 02-09-2009, 03:16 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
Yeah, KLR650=Honda Accord, Toyota Corola, Hyundai Accent, etc. BMW F800GS=BMW 5-Series, Mercedes Benz S-Class, Audi A5, etc.

Build quality, durability, capabilities, power, range, comfort. This list goes on....
Just curious what kind of 'real world' fuel mileage are you or any other GS800 owners are getting? Specs claim ~62mpg @ 56mph. Unfortunately, that's premium fuel as that's what it calls for.

One thing difficult for anyone to argue is the KLR's range. 300 miles on a stock tank is not uncommon.

Of all the new (large) iron coming out in the US the 800GS has the most potential to make me part with a buck. Seems to be hitting my market segment (whatever that is) square on.

Still love the simplicity of the KLR, though.
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:51 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Griz
My stock F800GS rides better than my farkled KLR by a long shot!
On the street I agree.

For real adventure duty I had to completely go through my KLRs suspension, new WP shock and go through the forks (emulators, springs) and it was at a level then that worked for me. I know eventually I'll wind up doing the same on the 800 and I'm certain it will cost me a lot more to get it there. My stock 800 suspension can't touch my KLRs upgraded suspension for any kind of rough terrain at all. And actually comparing a stock KLRs to a stock 800s suspension they both limit you at about the same level in the dirt.

So I payed more for the 800 an will spend as much or more in upgrades to get what I had on my KLR.

Not pickin on you Griz because you've found what works for you (right on!) , but I've often seen these comparisons between BMWs an any Jap bike and the BMWs always get the comments of it "just seems more refined" and the other is built cheaper in comparison. No doubt a bike like the KLR is BUILT cheaper, but comparing apples to apples like the KLR to an F650 (thumper) I've ridden both an didn't come away feeling the BMW gave me anything better to "step up to". Refined means nothing to me compared to how it does the job that I want it to do, an I guarantee that my 800 won't allow me to have twice the adventure that my KLR did, actually less in terms of off road adventure.

But the overall package works for me, and it's so much more fun on the street (where I spend half my riding hours) that it's worth it. I think one of the big four could have built a bike that would do the same for a lot less money....an be less refined.....and I would be just as happy with it. But they didn't. BMW did and I don't mind coming up with the dough to get one, but I have yet to see anything that stands out above most of the Jap bikes I've owned. I've only owned one other BMW (an airhead RT) which was a fine bike, but again comparing to other bikes of it's time it wasn't anything special other than I just wanted that bike (in fact gave me more headaches than comparable bikes).

So really the function of the 800 gets me excited an I love it. But it to has cheap parts that need to be upgraded and if I own it as long as my KLR the farkle list will be just as high I'm certain.

Oh yeah, I can't do the whole car comparison thing like you guys because I don't know jack about cars (sorry just no passion there)
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:57 AM   #139
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There seems to be an underlying theme of more money equals better quality and performance. There might be a miniscule amount of truth to this in some situations but I really don't agree with this concept in its entirety.
But, for those who feel they need to always pay more, then do. Just that simple. Personally I have found this belief to be bogus and those who feel this way seem to exhibit an inflated ego. Look around and you will observe that most GS's never see offroad conditions. Especially those conditions which really task its' abilities. There is no question that it can handle a variety of tasks in a competent manner. But to continually insist that it is the best creates an deluded and unrealistic impression. Real world reliability and off road capabilities in conjunction with a stable ride makes any bike a value, no matter what name is on it.

There are many good bikes out there. Buy the one which suits your needs.

TC
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Old 02-09-2009, 01:50 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilClown
Just curious what kind of 'real world' fuel mileage are you or any other GS800 owners are getting? Specs claim ~62mpg @ 56mph. Unfortunately, that's premium fuel as that's what it calls for.
I do ~250 miles/week commuting, mostly freeway at 75+, plus lane splitting below about 50 or so.

With my KLR, I could do 250 miles on a tank, but almost always hit reserve before that 250 mark. I think it calculated out to about 48-49mpg.

With my 800GS, I can usually muster 200 miles, but that's pretty deep into the reserve--the computer will typically indicate a range of 10-20 miles at that point. Based on the fuel loaded and the odometer I'm at about 45-46mpg, and the trip computer agrees. FWIW, my instantaneous indicated MPG at 60mpg is ~70mpg.

I've run a number of tanks with 91 and 87 to determine what the best fuel is to use--with the standard mapping, mind you. With 87 octane, it SEEMS to be a point or so *LESS* MPG, and also seems to have a little bit of a flat spot if I whack it on the freeway. I typically use 91 as a result, but I have no problem using 87 if I feel like a cheap bastard that day.
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Old 02-09-2009, 02:27 PM   #141
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I've filled the tank 17 times since I got the bike, always with premium or mid-grade. My average over that time is 50 mpg, and individual tankfuls have varied from 44.864 mpg to 54.817 mpg.

David
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Old 02-09-2009, 04:25 PM   #142
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Initially I found it difficult to bond with my 800gs. I admit I was anti BMW before, for they seem to design complex answers to simple questions. If it wasn't for the Rotax motor and the abililty to order a base bike to minimalize potential issues I may have passed.
At first it was just the suspension I was upset about, but the more I work on it, the more I see a certain method to their madness.
For instance why torx screws? yes they are metric, but try to buy them in any small town. Why so many different sizes?. Ever take the plastic off. basically sheet metal screws that thread into cheap metal clips. I presently have one stuck on the top panel that is stuck and just spins. Wait until you take the rear shock off and then tell me what tool you use to get access to bottom shock mount.
How about maintenance schedules, apparently the computor will tell you, but any other way is going to require you to search
The whole bike seems to be designed to keep you coming back to BMW for parts and service. They will gladly sell you a $300 tool kit, and even if you do some of your own service you need to return to reset the computor and be downloaded to the mothership.
I love the design, the frame and the motor, but other than that, I do not think it is light years ahead of any Japanese bike.
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Old 02-09-2009, 04:52 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm
Initially I found it difficult to bond with my 800gs. I admit I was anti BMW before, for they seem to design complex answers to simple questions. If it wasn't for the Rotax motor and the abililty to order a base bike to minimalize potential issues I may have passed.
At first it was just the suspension I was upset about, but the more I work on it, the more I see a certain method to their madness.
For instance why torx screws? yes they are metric, but try to buy them in any small town. Why so many different sizes?. Ever take the plastic off. basically sheet metal screws that thread into cheap metal clips. I presently have one stuck on the top panel that is stuck and just spins. Wait until you take the rear shock off and then tell me what tool you use to get access to bottom shock mount.
How about maintenance schedules, apparently the computor will tell you, but any other way is going to require you to search
The whole bike seems to be designed to keep you coming back to BMW for parts and service. They will gladly sell you a $300 tool kit, and even if you do some of your own service you need to return to reset the computor and be downloaded to the mothership.
I love the design, the frame and the motor, but other than that, I do not think it is light years ahead of any Japanese bike.

Unfortunately, this is a common tendency. Bikes are getting more complicated and less "user or home mechanic friendly". There is no modern Jap bike around, KLR is a dinosaur, which is much easier to work on. Modern "green" regulations, I guess, are mainly responsible.
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:15 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amk
Bikes are getting more complicated and less "user or home mechanic friendly". There is no modern Jap bike around, KLR is a dinosaur, which is much easier to work on.
+1 for the KLR

Seriously, I agree with you on modern bikes vs the shadetree mechanic, and much of that is a result of higher technology for certain. BUT the more I dig into the BMW shop manual it seems that BMW went out of their way to keep you dependent on the dealer than many other current offerings.
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:31 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Dave
+1 for the KLR

Seriously, I agree with you on modern bikes vs the shadetree mechanic, and much of that is a result of higher technology for certain. BUT the more I dig into the BMW shop manual it seems that BMW went out of their way to keep you dependent on the dealer than many other current offerings.


It's the wave of the future. Gets you into the 'boutique' while you're waiting. Everyone is following HD on this one. From a business standpoint, why wouldn't you? It's not about bikes anymore - it's about marketing.
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Old 02-09-2009, 07:50 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilClown


It's the wave of the future. Gets you into the 'boutique' while you're waiting. Everyone is following HD on this one. From a business standpoint, why wouldn't you? It's not about bikes anymore - it's about marketing.
The problem for me is that there isn't a BMW dealer anywhere close to me (San Luis Obisp, CA) so those trips to the boutique would get mighty tiresome. I'm thinking of getting a F800GS someday but the need to drive long distances to get the computer reset would be a big negative on the list of pro's and con's.
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:33 PM   #147
The Griz
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On both my 07 and 08 KLR's I regularly got 230 miles out of a tank, max. And that was stock. After a UNI filter, re-jetting the carb, and Two Brothers M-7 exhaust it cut it by 10-15 miles per tank on my 08. And yeah, you could put WP or Cogent Dynamics or Ohlins shocks on any bike and it would make it ride top notch. Those kinds of shocks would make ANY bike better. But in my opinion, my stock 800GS rides light years better than my stock KLR's ever did. On and off road.

P.S. I'm serious, all the stock fasteners on my KLR's are like butter. I stripped and twisted off so many nuts and bolts just trying to torque them to service manual specs. So far I've done a lot of wrenching on my F800GS, and have yet to strip or break anything yet.
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:46 PM   #148
The Griz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumpercrazee
There seems to be an underlying theme of more money equals better quality and performance. There might be a miniscule amount of truth to this in some situations but I really don't agree with this concept in its entirety.
But, for those who feel they need to always pay more, then do. Just that simple. Personally I have found this belief to be bogus and those who feel this way seem to exhibit an inflated ego. Look around and you will observe that most GS's never see offroad conditions. Especially those conditions which really task its' abilities. There is no question that it can handle a variety of tasks in a competent manner. But to continually insist that it is the best creates an deluded and unrealistic impression. Real world reliability and off road capabilities in conjunction with a stable ride makes any bike a value, no matter what name is on it.

There are many good bikes out there. Buy the one which suits your needs.

TC
First off, there are egotistical asses that ride all types of bikes: Harley's, Ducati's, etc. etc. You're making a lot of unfounded, generalized assumptions. The fact that someone is egotistical has nothing to do with the bike they ride. In other words, it's the person, not the bike. Also, you're stating your opinion as fact. These things make you the egotistical one.

Secondly, I look around and observe that most of the GS's I see make their way on AND off road just as much as KLR's, DR650's, V-Stroms, etc. What I've observed in my neck of the woods is a 50/50 balance. And my experience with my F800GS has been superior to my KLR's in virtually all aspects. That is my opinion, and my experience. We all have a right to our own opinions, It's when we push them on others that things get out of hand.
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Old 02-09-2009, 10:17 PM   #149
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I don't envy you guys that don't have a good dealer close buy.
I bought my 800 partially because the dealer is about 3 miles from my house. They have been in business over 50 years and are very down to earth and reasonable. I couldn't say that for the KTM dealers semi-near me.
I do the work I can do, which is pretty much oil and tires. I don't have a problem taking the bike in on a Saturday every 6000 miles and having coffee and bullshitting for a couple of hours while they do what they do.
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:37 AM   #150
EvilClown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinfan
The problem for me is that there isn't a BMW dealer anywhere close to me (San Luis Obisp, CA) so those trips to the boutique would get mighty tiresome. I'm thinking of getting a F800GS someday but the need to drive long distances to get the computer reset would be a big negative on the list of pro's and con's.
That can be a problem - with any brand. Close support isn't a bad thing. Once on the road all bets are off, though.

Regarding the mileage - the 300 miles to the tank (m/t) isn't likely at any high speed. Commuting at 75mph certainly won't get it. But 230-250 m/t hammering on the bike isn't bad either.

The 800GS spec not that all specs are to be believed was at ~56mph (if my math was right). Griz, (or anyone else) how far are you getting on a (stock) tank with the 800?

Based on bxr140's reply it sounds like the mileage might be better with the 800GS (given the FI that's not a shocker) but the range is still greater with the KLR. Curious what other people are experiencing.
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