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Old 12-03-2008, 03:46 PM   #31
Kyler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmex
I get it. Kinda like having an ugly girlfriend when you go to a bar.
hehehe... go ugly early... just sayin' ...
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Old 12-03-2008, 05:36 PM   #32
Desert Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Django Loco

So, as usual, a trade off. A closer, better comparo would be a DL650 vs. F800GS.
Sure, for a street shootout they are comparable. Get off road an one will run circles around the other

I don't really think of the 800 as a dualsport, but more an adventure bike. Same as a KLR. And If I'm gonna trailer in a bike to ride off-road it's going to be a real dirtbike, why put up with a KLR in the dirt if you don't get the benefit of it's highway ability? (or why put up with it on the highway if you don't use it's ability to explore dirt?)

Points taken. In my regular weekend rides I'm not going to foreign countries, and I'm also not out to play Dakar racer on the local trails. Really I need a tool to go where I want to explore and enjoy doing it. For me, bikes like the KLR and GS800 are some of the few with this balance, now we're splitting hairs on where in the middle it is. Bang for the buck the KLR wins hands down as there's no way I'll have twice the experiences on my GS that I did on the KLR (God help me if I do ). It's just when I ride the 800 I don't feel myself wanting another bike for parts of the ride like I do on the KLR, or Strom.
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:10 PM   #33
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If you plan on going on the superslab much.....I would definately stay away from the KLR.
Last year bought a new 08 KLR, and while I loved it for the back roads, it was terrible on the slab even after I put some 70/30 tires on it.
I now have an 08 Wee Strom and love it.
Way, way, way,way, way better on the slab, and will go anywhere I went on the KLR.
Lets face it, the KLR is no real dirt bike...especially if you are over 50...just to big and heavy.
So yes the VTROM is fine for back roads and fire roads and probably good wide trails.
I would suspect the BMW is much like the Wee.
Now, if you never go on the slab, the 08 KLR is a fun, comfy ride.
It DOES have lack of quality issues though...but it IS cheap.
I here that new BMW 800 twin is quite the mover! Enjoy!
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:01 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman250f
Can the gs 800 do the same things and feel as light being only 20 lbs heavier?

My 950 was a great suspended bike but it was very top heavy and in the tighter and more slippery conditions it was like a bull on ice. Will the 800 gs be more like the KTM or the KLR?

Motoman250f
Your questions had to do with weight and handling, not motors or long distance comfort.

In response to your first question - YES but you might not try it as often as on a KLR IF you are worried about dropping it. I have already learned about the outrageous cost to repair one of these machines. It will be on my mind constantly. It will limit what I do on the bike now. I dropped mine two months ago, and I'm still waiting on parts. $6,300 for a 20 mph low side (with crashbars). Yes, I had insurance but how many $6k claims do I want to make?

In response to your second question - the F800 might feel more like the KLR than the 950. The F800 is slightly heavier than the KLR but carries the weight low. With the wrong tires, any bike over 300 lbs feels like a bull on ice. Only aggressive offroad tires work well in slippery conditions.

Navaho screwed with this post 12-03-2008 at 07:21 PM
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:25 PM   #35
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The KLR can do everything ... but nothing perfect

I have done track days on my KLR
Surprised MANY sport bike riders in the twisties on it.
Rode 1100 miles one day, 1421 miles day two, and 1491 miles day three (19hours, 32 hours & 36 hours respectively).
705 kitted, stage two headed, completely modded KLR.
It does it all ... just not to perfection ... but neither have I ever in my life.
We're a match made in heaven :)

I love it ... but needed a DL1000 for the highway stuff (done now).

Would I want the F8 ??

Oh YEAH ... it's giving both the DL & the KLR705
nightmares in the garage.

:)
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:35 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaho
Your questions had to do with weight and handling, not motors or long distance comfort.

In response to your first question - YES but you might not try it as often as on a KLR IF you are worried about dropping it. I have already learned about the outrageous cost to repair one of these machines. It will be on my mind constantly. It will limit what I do on the bike now. I dropped mine two months ago, and I'm still waiting on parts. $6,300 for a 20 mph low side (with crashbars). Yes, I had insurance but how many $6k claims do I want to make?

In response to your second question - the F800 might feel more like the KLR than the 950. The F800 is slightly heavier than the KLR but carries the weight low. With the wrong tires, any bike over 300 lbs feels like a bull on ice. Only aggressive offroad tires work well in slippery conditions.
Well said. A KLR is no doubt a great bike relative to capabilities and cost of ownership. The F8 is an amazing machine and will do everything the KLR does, but better. If I dropped a KLR and got scrathes on the side panels or dinged an exhaust I would not give it a second thought. The F8 on the other hand is such a beautiful motorcycle that I want to keep it as pristine as possible. The latter attitude does limit your off road envelope a bit, but it is not at all related to the bike's capabilities. I pretty much got over that attitude with respect to my HP2 (it is actually a pretty ugly bike by any measure), and maybe I will with the F8 in time.

I have a lot of bikes and love them all , but I can honestly say that I have never felt quite as strongly about any of them or previous bikes I have owned than I do about the F8. BMW really got it right with this motorcycle IMO. There is no doubt that I will be scanning ebay and all the other usual places in a year or so looking for a second one to use as a parts bike, and I have never done that before.
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:14 PM   #37
Django Loco
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Great to see guys getting out there on these bikes. Any word on how the F800's held up on these trips?

But perhaps you've missed my point: As nice as the F800 is, not everyone can afford to sacrifice a nice bike on long trip through 3rd world countries. World travel is tough on bikes .... it essentially eats a bike up. If you have the money to burn ... hey, go for it Good for the economy!

But many younger riders who travel (most are twenty somethings) prefer the low budget option. The KLR/DR/XR/XT all provide a viable alternative to cross continents. See the Sequin brothers ride report here on ADV:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377792
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:21 PM   #38
Django Loco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaho
I have already learned about the outrageous cost to repair one of these machines. It will be on my mind constantly. It will limit what I do on the bike now. I dropped mine two months ago, and I'm still waiting on parts. $6,300 for a 20 mph low side (with crashbars). Yes, I had insurance but how many $6k claims do I want to make?
WOW I had no idea. So here we see the kind of Catch 22 of owning a road bike and trying to force it into off road duty. With a KLR you aren't on the hook for much at all. And my DR650 crashes even cheaper .... no radiators, no hoses, no waterpump. Mine has been down dozens of times .... well I did have to buy a new shift lever!
(Dammit! )

So Horses for Courses. If I owned the F800GS I can assure you I would never try to trail ride with it. Fireroads, mild two track .... all fine. You know, all the dirt roads I rode on my Vstrom
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:25 PM   #39
tmex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Django Loco
But perhaps you've missed my point: As nice as the F800 is, not everyone can afford to sacrifice a nice bike on long trip through 3rd world countries. World travel is tough on bikes .... it essentially eats a bike up. If you have the money to burn ... hey, go for it Good for the economy!
No, I got your point, and I agree. That is why I take my ex-wife bar hopping, and take my girlfriend on a weekend to the Sierras.
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:39 PM   #40
Django Loco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaho
In response to your second question - the F800 might feel more like the KLR than the 950. The F800 is slightly heavier than the KLR but carries the weight low. With the wrong tires, any bike over 300 lbs feels like a bull on ice. Only aggressive offroad tires work well in slippery conditions.
I agree. Even with the good tires it can be a challenge ... as you've discovered

Just a quick update on weights:
1988-2007 KLR Dry Weight: 337 lbs. (153 kgs.)

BMW F800GS Dry Weight: 391 lbs. (178 kgs.)
"ready to ride" weight: 455 lbs. (207 kgs.)

Difference in dry weights? 54 lbs.

54 lbs. off road is a substantial number. You will feel this!

The new KLR's from '08 on, are heavier, but most KLR's on the road today are pre '08's. Wet the KLR picks up a lot of weight if one fills the tank. Most do not do this off road. Since you can go nearly 100 miles on two gallons, why fill it up for a short Off road loop?

A naked (no luggage) KLR with better springs/shock, fork brace and damper, front brake up grade, is transformed from the stock bike. Much more capable, especially in the dirt.
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:16 PM   #41
Trail Boss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Django Loco
Just a quick update on weights:
1988-2007 KLR Dry Weight: 337 lbs. (153 kgs.)

BMW F800GS Dry Weight: 391 lbs. (178 kgs.)
"ready to ride" weight: 455 lbs. (207 kgs.)

Difference in dry weights? 54 lbs.

54 lbs. off road is a substantial number. You will feel this!
Dry weight is a mysterious number that manufacturers seem to use to hide the actual weight of the bike in a ready to ride state.

I've tabulated the wet weights of the different adventure/dual sport from various sources (mostly Motorcycle Consumer News). Wet weight is the actual weight of the bike when you are out riding it (with only a small variance based on the amount of gasoline in your tank).

'08 KLR - 428 lbs (about 13 lbs heavier than pre-08 KLRs)
F800GS - 462 lbs

A real world difference of just 34 lbs.

For comparison purposes

Wee-Strom - 472 lbs
2000 F650GS - 430 lbs
2008 R1200GS - 536 lbs
DR650 - 368 lbs.
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:33 PM   #42
Bucko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Django Loco

Just a quick update on weights:
1988-2007 KLR Dry Weight: 337 lbs. (153 kgs.)

BMW F800GS Dry Weight: 391 lbs. (178 kgs.)
"ready to ride" weight: 455 lbs. (207 kgs.)

Difference in dry weights? 54 lbs.

54 lbs. off road is a substantial number. You will feel this!
Those numbers are all marketing hype, A KLR 650 with all its parts has never weighed 337 pounds (even the original '87 that you didn't include ). I'll have to check some magazine back issues for real weights, but one that comes to mind is 521 pounds for a GS8 with the BMW luggage, tank bag and probably a skid pan. I really doubt the accessories weigh 66 pounds.

Still, the difference between the bikes seems like 50 pounds or so. Of course you feel it offroad, but you also feel the BMW's better suspension, stronger frame and general overall stability advantage. Pick whichever one you like, I think the GS8 proved its mettle at the GS Trophy event in Tunisia and will continue to do so as more owners get out in the boonies with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Django Loco
Wet the KLR picks up a lot of weight if one fills the tank. Most do not do this off road. Since you can go nearly 100 miles on two gallons, why fill it up for a short Off road loop?
Where do you get this info? Going off road can mean a short dirt loop or a long exploratory putt into the backcountry loaded down with camping gear and a full tank of gas so you can get back out again. Let's stick to facts.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:30 PM   #43
Django Loco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_
Dry weight is a mysterious number that manufacturers seem to use to hide the actual weight of the bike in a ready to ride state.

I've tabulated the wet weights of the different adventure/dual sport from various sources (mostly Motorcycle Consumer News). Wet weight is the actual weight of the bike when you are out riding it (with only a small variance based on the amount of gasoline in your tank).

'08 KLR - 428 lbs (about 13 lbs heavier than pre-08 KLRs)
F800GS - 462 lbs

A real world difference of just 34 lbs.

For comparison purposes

Wee-Strom - 472 lbs
2000 F650GS - 430 lbs
2008 R1200GS - 536 lbs
DR650 - 368 lbs.
According to KLR.net, a source I trust, the 2008 KLR650 dry weight is listed at 386 lbs. (175.4 kgs.)

Kawasaki list the dry weight on an '06 KLR650 at 337 lbs.
That is a 49 lbs. difference.

In any case, as I've said .... MOST KLR's on the road today are pre '08, so you have to go with the lower weight specs of the earlier KLR.
More interesting is the similar weights of the F800GS and Wee Strom .... which in my very recent experience off road riding both .... put these two bikes very close. Save price of course.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:54 PM   #44
Django Loco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucko
Those numbers are all marketing hype, A KLR 650 with all its parts has never weighed 337 pounds (even the original '87 that you didn't include ).
OEM listed dry weights can be off and usually are. But we all know this .... it's common knowledge. I'm well aware of KLR history. A friend had an '84 KLR600. In fact, over the years kawi made some small changes to the bike, so maybe the weights changed slightly?
No importa. I quoted 337 lbs. from a spec sheet from a 2006 KLR.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucko
Still, the difference between the bikes seems like 50 pounds or so. Of course you feel it offroad, but you also feel the BMW's better suspension, stronger frame and general overall stability advantage.
Spot on. No question GS will outshine a stock KLR. But a modded one is a lot better ... but the frame and rear subframe can still break! Of course, BMW frames never break!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucko
Pick whichever one you like, I think the GS8 proved its mettle at the GS Trophy event in Tunisia and will continue to do so as more owners get out in the boonies with them.
I'm sure owners are gonna love this bike.
But from my reading of the Tunisia thread I'd say the bike had it's problems in those conditions. That deep sand slowed down most of the riders there and those bent wheels were dramatic evidence that the bikes were beaten hard. That said, would a KLR have done any better? Hmmm, probably not that much better but I bet a busted KLR wheel would be cheaper than the F800 one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucko
Where do you get this info? Going off road can mean a short dirt loop or a long exploratory putt into the backcountry loaded down with camping gear and a full tank of gas so you can get back out again. Let's stick to facts.
Facts? Hey Bucko (I like that!), these are my facts. Most of the KLR guys I know don't fill the tank on every ride. FACT (my fact )

In Baja or somewhere super remote, obviously you would fill up. Duh! But in the Sierra or parts of the Mojave, where I've ridden for many decades, we usually do shorter loops of about 100 miles between gas stops, or pick a route that goes near gas at some point. We do this mostly to allow our more dirt oriented riders with small tanks to fill up. The KLR's are like Super tankers, supplying gas to others.
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Old 12-04-2008, 04:58 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Django Loco
According to KLR.net, a source I trust, the 2008 KLR650 dry weight is listed at 386 lbs. (175.4 kgs.)

Kawasaki list the dry weight on an '06 KLR650 at 337 lbs.
That is a 49 lbs. difference.
I have no doubt that KLR.net is quoting the official "dry" weight of the KLR.

As I wrote earlier, the dry weight is not reflective of the actual weight of the motorcycle in a ready-to-ride state (fuel, oil, coolant, battery, etc). So, for me and anyone who wants to know or compare motorcycle weights, the dry weight is a meaningless number since it does not tell me the actual weight of the bike. I'll stick with the actual weight of the bike, measured on a scale, in a ready-to-ride state (aka, wet weight).
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