800GS vs KLR

[Trail Boss]

Originally Posted by KLR650Tinkerer

In short, the 60 HP at motor on the KLr 705 with a 16 tooth counter-sprocket & Touring gear, aux fuel tank etc ... KILLED the TRANNY of the KLR in short order. Want to KILL a KLR ??
Load it to 650 pounds, install a 705 KIT with stage two head and hit the freeways for 3000 miles in three days = ONE DEAD KLR motor :)

Could somebody with extensive mechanical knowledge help me out here and explain how modifying a KLR engine caused the failure of Tinkerer's transmission?

Would loading a stock KLR with 650lbs and then riding it for 3000 miles on the freeway kill the transmission? Or is the failure mostly due to the 705 kit + stage 2 head + 16t countersprocket?

[Django Loco]

Originally Posted by Richard_

Could somebody with extensive mechanical knowledge help me out here and explain how modifying a KLR engine caused the failure of Tinkerer's transmission?

Would loading a stock KLR with 650lbs and then riding it for 3000 miles on the freeway kill the transmission? Or is the failure mostly due to the 705 kit + stage 2 head + 16t countersprocket?

Dozens of stock KLR's have done RTW rides with minimal problems. Granted, a few have exploded, a few broken frames and quite a few broken sub frames .... and of course the infamous Doo Hickey failures which can take out the engine/trans. But overall, over the last 20 years, KLR's have done pretty damn well in hard use, overloaded, on long mile treks over much worse terrain than the OP describes.

Hard to say, IMO, if the 700 kit was a direct cause but to be certain, it is putting an extra load on everything. I have a theory about what happens when round eye enter an Asian motor. But we won't go there for now. There is a chance this guys motor/trans could have had problems coming down the line anyway. Who knows?

I would not allow this report to put you off klr's. As long as the DooHickey has been dealt with, should be OK .... and by the way ...
leave it stock!

[Trail Boss]

Originally Posted by Django Loco

.... and by the way ...leave it stock!

No chance of that happening. I've got an oil burning '08 and plan on installing the 685 kit in the next few months to permanently fix the oil burning issue.

Then, with a little luck, I'll follow that with a stage 2 kit and a 16T countersprocket.

[Lunatik]

The reason the KLR 705 blew up on my trip was a number of things, too many to actually see WHAT was the mitigating factor ... there were many.
1. the bike was putting 60HP at motor (KLRcary told me that STOCK, the bike could have been ridden all its life at full throttle, but when you increase the power load substancially, things start to stress)
2. The bike was OVER-LOADED (just ask drif10) ... I used a 10 gallon fuel tank mounted on rear of bike, PLUs the top trunk was on top, adding to the SAIL EFFECT
3. I rode 1100 miles, 1421 miles, then 1491 miles in three days (19 hours, 32 hours & 36 hours straight).
4. the speed was about 75 mph the first day... and was less and less over the next two day .... as bike motor was failing due to SHAVINGS in oil tearing at the Con Rod Bearing (it's a needle bearing there, and Very suseptable to shearing oil too).
5. OIL was Amsoil and was changed out twice on ride.
6. stock cooling system couldn't keep bike head cool (heat from POWER, LOAD, SPEED)
7. head was stage two ported, and cylinder was at 10/1 compression

SO ... in short, the bike cooling system over the first four hours of the ride began to loose to the heat output of the motor.
That over time, plus the speeds, and the loads, were tearing down the tranny gears (CARY told me he thought the gears could NOT take the kind of loads I was placing on it... he ended up being correct (RIP Cary))

Now I have the bike at 9.2/1 compression ... I use a 2000 Yamaha R1 radiator with Stock KLR fan (wired to a switch) ... and the head is ported to stage Three by Mississaga Engines now. I have had ZERO trouble now, but it's winter here.

I know from experience that this WILL happen again ... IF I place those kinds of loads on it again ... SEE above for reasons.
It's a KLR ... not made for this type of riding ... If loaded light, and ridden slower, it's going to be perfect ... as it was intended

OH ... yes ... I did run the 16 tooth front counter as well... increasing tranny loads as well

all those things, add to destroyed KLR motor (Connecting Rod disinitigration). HEAT KILLED IT

[tomatocity]

Where is the BMW F800GS...
...engine built?
...motorcycle built?

[Django Loco]

Great explanation and it all makes sense to me. I love your idea of going to the bigger Rad. This should help. World class pistons/rings/bearings and proper coating on the barrel will help also.
Very few can do Nikasel coating like the factory can.

Good luck with the oil burning '08. I've heard of a few of these oil burners. Kawi better put some pressure on the Thai plant to turn around the QC over there.

Honda and Triumph both have factories there as well and both are putting out good bikes. Most KLR's built there in the last ten years have been OK however. But Starting in '07, something slipped. I know they will get this under control.

[nat_han]

Originally Posted by tomatocity

Where is the BMW F800GS...
...engine built?
...motorcycle built?

heard that the engine was built in taiwan..
anyone with facts to confirm this?

[]I)Money]

That is either a misunderstanding (450), or a deliberate misrepresentation.
The engine is a rotax.

[Django Loco]

BMW, in partnership with Kymco, have a factory in Taiwan. At present they are building the new G450 dirt bike there. Also, a new F650 Dakar single is said to be coming this year. Small details are missing, like, is the motor built in Taiwan too? Or just the bike? Is it a Rotax? Or BMW built?

Another persistent rumor indicate Rotax too have also looked to Asia to produce some engines. True? I have no verification.

BMW also imply that the current F800GS/F650GS now built in Berlin at the Spandau plant, using a Rotax built motor, will, in future be built in Taiwan as well.

You hear all kinds of rumors and BS but if you follow interviews with the head honchos like David Robb among a few others, you can sometimes get a clue as to what plans might be.

[motoman250f]

KLR tinkerer, Thanks for all that info! I don't think people realize the load on the engine and tranny when you go to that 16 tooth sprocket. my theory is that HP= rpm x torque If you use more rpm to get the same hp to push against the wind you will need less torque to do it. I realize there are other variables here but I'm always nervous when gearing up past stock. I suppose leaving it stock gearing only helps until you want to go 85 next and it would have blown up then i'm sure.

I couldn't have even run that first day with you!!

"I rode 1100 miles, 1421 miles, then 1491 miles"

[Motoriley]

If the motor is stock I wouldn't sweat a 16T sprocket. I ran 14, 15, 16 on my KLRs and so did everyone else I knew and we never had a KLR motor snag exept for the doohickey on one of mine which broke and even ridden that way for 1500kms didn't hurt anything. Sadly most of the problems we had were from doing maintenance. Stripped threads and such. The less we did to these bikes the better off we were. After 10,000 or so Kms even valve adjustments were a waste of time.

Originally Posted by motoman250f

KLR tinkerer, Thanks for all that info! I don't think people realize the load on the engine and tranny when you go to that 16 tooth sprocket. my theory is that HP= rpm x torque If you use more rpm to get the same hp to push against the wind you will need less torque to do it. I realize there are other variables here but I'm always nervous when gearing up past stock. I suppose leaving it stock gearing only helps until you want to go 85 next and it would have blown up then i'm sure.

I couldn't have even run that first day with you!!

"I rode 1100 miles, 1421 miles, then 1491 miles"

[bxr140]

Originally Posted by motoman250f

I don't think people realize the load on the engine and tranny when you go to that 16 tooth sprocket.

I actually think people overestimate the 'extra load' from the 16t...

[Bucko]

Originally Posted by Motoriley

If the motor is stock I wouldn't sweat a 16T sprocket. I ran 14, 15, 16 on my KLRs and so did everyone else I knew and we never had a KLR motor snag exept for the doohickey on one of mine which broke and even ridden that way for 1500kms didn't hurt anything. Sadly most of the problems we had were from doing maintenance. Stripped threads and such. The less we did to these bikes the better off we were. After 10,000 or so Kms even valve adjustments were a waste of time.

I'd agree with most of that, but it doesn't hurt to check the valves once in awhile, as I found out when my '87 wouldn't start because the valve clearances were nearly nuttin'.

[bill77]

This has been a great thread. I have also been doing the KLR vs. F8GS debate. It is really quite a complement to the KLR that it stands up so well to the significantly more expensive BMW. There doesn't seem to be any "victor" in this debate, just pro's and con's mostly related to spending more and getting more. The venerable KLR is still one helluva great bargain. There's just something about the simplicity of the KLR that is appealing.

[zaner32]

Yep, I have to agree with you bill77.

The KLR is a great bike for the budget minded guy, or an entry level adventure motorcycle.

I wanted a bike that could do highway and could do trails. It did everything well.

After a few long day adventure trips 500-600 mile days, and a week long trip doing the Labrador loop, I wanted something more road worthy, without giving up too much off road. The F800GS was the answer.

And to have fun on the trails, I bought a DR350SE that neede some TLC. I can afford to thrash this little wonder of a bike in the woods without ever worrying that it'll cost me big bucks.

I just have to wait another 4 months for summer to come back.