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Old 11-30-2012, 07:06 PM   #8311
oldmonkeybut
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Hi Yamageek.....

There is a lot of truth to what you speak. The retrofitting of headlight components with brighter and more modern technology can rapidly spiral into a pile of melted parts. Not to mention a large hole in your wallet and general dissatisfaction. I have seen a few HID conversions that worked pretty well but they were not cheap.

This thread was generated from a search for supplemental lighting to be used in conjunction with an existing headlight. The quest is to provide increased conspicuity along with advanced venison warning. The problem is finding something bright enough to be useful, small enough to remain light and be mounted out of the way. All the while not consuming more energy than the system produces. Price is also a major concern as we wouldn't want to alienate the KLR brethren. Finding "Clean" power is a huge concern on older bikes and the Dirt Bike based conversions as you stated. Most modern Dualsports with Electric Start have large enough storage batteries and high enough tech regulation/rectification to buffer out fluctuations in the power supply. LED's are new enough technology to generate some "black art" thoughts at our level. The low Ampere requirement makes them attractive since we would still be able to run the heated gear, electronic navigation, digital entertainment systems, communication systems, coffee makers, hair driers, curling irons and electronic vibratory massage devices that we find necessary for our existence as a society. The question is thusly brought forth....How bright is it compared to the 1000watt halogen that we're used to....where can we find the video "The Lumen and You" so all this information can be brought out into the light?


I'm no Engineer...I've never even been inside of a Locomotive
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oldmonkeybut screwed with this post 11-30-2012 at 09:04 PM
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:11 PM   #8312
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Yeah thought I'd just muddy the water a bit, you want to read some funny shit get onto one of those LED forum's subforums for DIY car lighting...
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:15 PM   #8313
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*Breaks out thesaurus*
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:31 AM   #8314
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Charging Systems

Be aware of different charging systems.

One is the true regulated alternator, like the twin BMW's. This system only generates the current required at the time needed. They are more complicated and usually need brushes that wear down.

Two is the generator type found on most single cyl bikes. It generates at 100% and the 'regulator' shunts off the excess to ground (look up how a Ziener Diode works). If you reduce the amount of current required to run the system, then more current will be 'wasted' to ground. This means the regulator part may get hotter and fail more often. This is very common with the old 4-cylinder Suzuki's. So, going to low watt headlights will not save any energy and may actually shorten the life of components. Most of these systems only puts out 80-120 watts. It seems that mfg's design it to consume half of the total output.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:13 AM   #8315
oldmonkeybut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuber View Post

The generator type found on most single cyl bikes. It generates at 100% and the 'regulator' shunts off the excess to ground (look up how a Ziener Diode works). If you reduce the amount of current required to run the system, then more current will be 'wasted' to ground. This means the regulator part may get hotter and fail more often. This is very common with the old 4-cylinder Suzuki's. So, going to low watt headlights will not save any energy and may actually shorten the life of components. Most of these systems only puts out 80-120 watts. It seems that mfg's design it to consume half of the total output.
Good info Zoob. Figuring output at 80-120 watts. Normal consumption at 40-60 watts leaves 40-60 watts of excess power. Take 10% away for a safety cushion and you have 36-54 watts left over to power any additional load. Using Ohm's Law you can determine the available Amperage. As long as you don't exceed your available Amperage limit you can run whatever you want without problems. Don't forget Connections, Relays, Switches and lengths of Wire are not "Free". All of those will consume a portion of your available Amperage due to their inherent Resistance. Ohm's Law is a lot like Newtons Law of Gravity...those are laws you can't break.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:41 AM   #8316
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:47 PM   #8317
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Actooally, a lot of motorbikes use a shunt to ground charging regulator, if the regulator is in-cased in a large, aluminum-ish, heavily finned case, it's a good bet it's a shunt to ground voltage regulator.

BTW you should never, ever use a running car to jump start a bike with this system, it will, with certain alacrity, burn out the poor regulator as it tries to get rid of over 14.2 volts worth of over-cuurent. This can amount to over 200 watts in some cases. Best to use a car with a good charged battery that's not running.

More LED redux: Most people when they think of LED's, think of the little 3 to 8 MM plastic encased LED's found at Radio Shack, and in cheap flashlights. These by and large are mostly intended as indicator lamps and certain low power light displays, Christmas lights, etc. and most consume about .025 to .15 amps at whatever their 'forward' voltage is rated at. Most white LED's, which we are using as road lighting, have a forward voltage of about 4.0~4.2 volts maximum. The thing about the smaller LED's is that when they're running, their making heat, but it's inconsequential enough that the anode and cathode leads and the plastic case itself can easily dissipate it. The problem that commes with newer Cree and other hi-power LED's is that they end up generating quite a bit of heat, heat that does need to be gotten rid of, and because of where they make this heat also makes for problems when retrofitting to standard headlight fixtures. They also release this heat in an odd place, usually through the power leads or the Anode's base to the leads in the bulb's 'behind' region.

LED's are not like HID's or Incandescent bulbs where the light come's out of the element in a near spherical radiation They are actually more closer to LASER light because the light is emitted roughly uni-directional with little divergence, maybe 30~70 degrees at most. The reason for the plastic dome shapes they're often encased in is to provide a little bit of extra divergence. High power LED's all come with demanding requirements that they be affixed to some sort of heat conducting surface, one that easily carries away the heat, but doesn't cause a short circuit of the power leads that often need to pass through the cooling surface. I'm betting these 10 watt units you folks are using have some sort of heavy aluminum casing or some sort of 'heatsink' that carries away the excess heat. I'd be suprised if they didn't, because even though LED's are pretty efficient compared to incadescent, their requirement to get rid of the heat they generate when matching or surpassing incadescent lighting makes them much more of a problem to design for, and the technology used is much more expensive.

And because this flood of light normally comes out in a roughly narrowish conical shape, getting the beam shaped to fit the road, light the foreground and distance with an even spread and also not etch the retinas of those drivers passing you on a darkened road, becomes an even bigger headache to design for. At least with the present state of LED 'bulb' headlight design. Add the need to have an integral voltage/current regulator to compensate for the voltage swings of a bike's charging system, lotsa heat in the 'backside' of the enclosure, a properly designed system gets to be expensive fast. I'm not sure if most of these LED off road lights would pass DOT muster for glare reduction and proper road lighting.

Yeah class dismissed....
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:46 PM   #8318
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We're talking about rigid (un)brand(ed) auxiliary stuff here, fwiw...
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:58 PM   #8319
Superpacman13
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In other news, I am almost free from the tyranny of Ramsey! I put my notice in on Thursday and have felt no regret since then, so I will assume it is the right decision.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:36 PM   #8320
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In other news, I am almost free from the tyranny of Ramsey! I put my notice in on Thursday and have felt no regret since then, so I will assume it is the right decision.
It's the "right decision" as long as it frees you up to swap out the two raising link bolts on the Klr some evening.
-fwiw...me and another mechanically-challenged dude installed the links in about 20mins a while back (so this job'd be quick) but his socket set was way past worn and the extra socket 'clearance' allowed a 'spinning' which buggered the bolt heads and knowing they're down there all torn up is bugging me so I've already got the replacement bolts. Now he's out of his place with a garage, and while I was actually able to get in an oil change at 7am...lying on the gravel driveway in between cloud bursts the other morning...I'd really rather impose on you (and your heated, dry garage) again if it's not too much trouble. This 'bike with no garage' thing is the SUCK!

and...you still haven't named your fee for the crash bar install so decide or I'll come up with some tacky-as-hell...and likely highly inappropriate token of my appreciation!

E30Newbie....guess you got jammed up at 5 Friday for the light handoff...no worries. I will however advise that I'm wanting to trade 'down' to the 9LED's since by the power calculation talk....I'm guessing I'll be well within the safety zone for the Klr's charging system with those. The 14LED's I have now...as we discussed...I'm not so sure of.
(throw me a $20 and keep the remaining $19 for a 'restocking fee' if that works for you)

(man....it really IS 'all about me')
Edited to Add- so as to dispell the above line....I meant to throw this out last Wednesday but I got so caught up in the light buying...and the 'special moment' with someone in the parking lot....that I forgot to mention it. Anywho...I'm mechanically(and arguably otherwise) retarded so I can't offer any of you swell fella's help that way but..I'd like to say that if you ever get broke down 'out in the sticks' and me and my Jeep and trailer can get to you...just call...24/7 and I'll move heaven and earth to respond and haul you and your scooter back out to civilization. I realize most of you are savvy and prepared enough for almost anything, but in the event the bike won't roll and a tow truck won't come out that far and you'd rather not leave the bike overnight...or whatever...just call. PM me or ask me Wednesday for my cell if you're interested....FWIW.
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Czechplease screwed with this post 12-01-2012 at 06:26 PM
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Old 12-01-2012, 07:21 PM   #8321
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Uhh,,Dude,

Hopefully you'll be out there with us when we need to call for rescue,,so thanks, but Not Applicable,,Oh yeah, I have ridden home to get a rescue truck, and have lent my KLR to "others", to go get a cage/trailer and so on.
If it does not involve an ambulance, it's all good!
Same goes for you ya know,, if you need a ride inna old Royota pickup,or a bike hauled,,,




,,call Linda, she has my truck,,
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:18 PM   #8322
oldmonkeybut
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Spent some time with my dad today kickin it "Old School"

We made this......


With This.....


Made some of this also....


It was Loud, Dangerous and messy......Good times..
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:28 PM   #8323
MikeinEugene
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That's awesome OMB

Here's what I'm messing with this morning:


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Old 12-02-2012, 12:35 PM   #8324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeinEugene View Post
That's awesome OMB

Here's what I'm messing with this morning:


you've gots problems.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:44 PM   #8325
oldmonkeybut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeinEugene View Post

Here's what I'm messing with this morning:


Ruh! Roh!.......Whatever those came out of isn't well.......
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