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Old 03-02-2010, 10:44 AM   #226
Johnf3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerCell
What about Lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4)?



.
I am no battery expert but I can certainly draw conclusions from my own empirical testing and evidence.

The Lithium Iron Phosphate like Powercell makes reference to make great motorcycle batteries and are superior to the AGMtype batteries that KTM uses as stock.

I have had mine in my Adventure for six months without issue.
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:52 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnf3
I have had mine in my Adventure for six months without issue.
I have had one in my SE for a bit over one month with no problems. (Yeah I know, it's still new)
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Old 03-02-2010, 11:23 AM   #228
charlie264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerCell
What about Lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4)?



.
I can’t really comment about LiFePO4 Ken. I know that they aren’t as powerful as typical lithium ion per mass.

Looked quickly on the web and they seem to be a lot safer, not prone to thermal runaway which is good.

The transport of Lithium batteries in the military is an real anal affair, individually sealed in waterproof jackets and stored in sealed waterproof/fireproof cases.

My point is, split a lead acid battery open, holes in your jeans on the next wash. Split open a Lithium based battery and they can catch on fire, put them in a 45 gallon drum of water, that’s entertainment. Lithium being the key word here.

Personal I don’t have a problem with any of them, I have many in power tools etc, charged correctly and looked after all is fine, but none of them are sitting under 4 gallons of petrol and fuel pipes.
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Old 03-02-2010, 11:49 AM   #229
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I stand corrected, they seem quite safe. Found this.

Specific hazards:
If the electrolyte contacts with water, it may generate detrimental hydrogen fluoride.
Since the leaked electrolyte is inflammable liquid, do not bring close to fire.


http://www.batteryspace.com/prod-specs/MSDS_LiFePO4.pdf
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Old 03-02-2010, 11:55 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnf3
I am no battery expert but I can certainly draw conclusions from my own empirical testing and evidence.

The Lithium Iron Phosphate like Powercell makes reference to make great motorcycle batteries and are superior to the AGMtype batteries that KTM uses as stock.

I have had mine in my Adventure for six months without issue.
what is the intitial cost ?

what is the cost per month over its entire service life ?

what is the behavior of the battery when it begins to fail ? is there a warning of emminent weakening before total failure as with the Yuasa YTZ 14S ?

can the lithion ion phosphate accept a hi amp jump start without damage ?
will it accept a jump start if it is dead from old age ?

how does it perform in service life with extreme use ( charge / discharge) such as HID start up and grip heater use

please report back in 18-24 months

thanks

so far at 16 months, the Yuasa at $131+ 10% commie tax comes in at $9 per month ( mine has given warning but i could probly stretch it a few more months, so at 18 months=$8 per month )

a $200 battery at 24 months useful lifespan would come out to $8.30 per month ( at 18 months= $11 per month)
IF the lifpo lasted 36 months the cost would be $5.50 per month

not weighing the in-trip catastrophic failure avoidance factor, and the other unkown factors such as what happens when the LIFPO does go ( will it provide enough capacitance to limp home if jumped off a mexican's 1973 chrysler cordoba ? )
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Old 03-02-2010, 12:56 PM   #231
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FYI the LiFePo4 pack that I am currently testing is $129 + shipping.

I suspect that the life of the pack could be improved if I installed cell management technology to maintain the cells better. time will tell... there is room in the battery box without modifying it to accommodate a simple BMS.

I am confident that the battery that I am testing does not present a explosion risk as other Lithium technologies do. LiFePo4 batteries are very stable. However, take my discoveries and willingness to test with my bike as just that.
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Old 03-02-2010, 01:06 PM   #232
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Cool video- German Rednecks?! Who knew??
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:08 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustodust
what is the intitial cost ?

what is the cost per month over its entire service life ?

what is the behavior of the battery when it begins to fail ? is there a warning of emminent weakening before total failure as with the Yuasa YTZ 14S ?

can the lithion ion phosphate accept a hi amp jump start without damage ?
will it accept a jump start if it is dead from old age ?

how does it perform in service life with extreme use ( charge / discharge) such as HID start up and grip heater use

please report back in 18-24 months

thanks

so far at 16 months, the Yuasa at $131+ 10% commie tax comes in at $9 per month ( mine has given warning but i could probly stretch it a few more months, so at 18 months=$8 per month )

a $200 battery at 24 months useful lifespan would come out to $8.30 per month ( at 18 months= $11 per month)
IF the lifpo lasted 36 months the cost would be $5.50 per month

not weighing the in-trip catastrophic failure avoidance factor, and the other unkown factors such as what happens when the LIFPO does go ( will it provide enough capacitance to limp home if jumped off a mexican's 1973 chrysler cordoba ? )
I paid 149.00, so close to the stock Yuasa price. However, my battery is six pounds lighter than the stock battery. That's pretty significant, and the main reason I wanted to try one of these.

I don't know about lithium ion, I have a lithium IRON phosphate battery.

Those are the only questions I can answer so far personally. There is a huge FAQ section at the vendor site where I purchased my battery that addresses some of your other inquiries, though.
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:46 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie264
Specific hazards:
If the electrolyte contacts with water, it may generate detrimental hydrogen fluoride.
Since the leaked electrolyte is inflammable liquid, do not bring close to fire.
And for those who didn't take chemistry Hydrofloric Acid is extreamly corrosive, capable of etching glass.
From the CDC web site:
Hydrogen fluoride goes easily and quickly through the skin and into the tissues in the body. There it damages the cells and causes them to not work properly.
The seriousness of poisoning caused by hydrogen fluoride depends on the amount, route, and length of time of exposure, as well as the age and preexisting medical condition of the person exposed.
Breathing hydrogen fluoride can burn lung tissue and cause swelling and fluid accumulation in the lungs (pulmonary edema).
Skin contact with hydrogen fluoride may cause severe burns that develop after several hours and form skin ulcers.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/hydrofluoricacid/
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:34 PM   #235
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quick! everyone pull your CELL PHONE out of your pocket and THROW it in a bucket of water and POKE it with a stick! It will kill you!
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:38 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Jabba
Cool video- German Rednecks?! Who knew??
Part Swede and Norwegian does not make me German unless you were talkin bout the other redneck... Oh, bike is built in Austria, BTW which I suppose some may think is part of Germany.
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:56 PM   #237
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Oh, bike is built in Austria, BTW which I suppose some may think is part of Germany.
It was for a while.
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Old 03-02-2010, 04:20 PM   #238
charlie264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Head2Wind
quick! everyone pull your CELL PHONE out of your pocket and THROW it in a bucket of water and POKE it with a stick! It will kill you!
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Old 03-02-2010, 06:40 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Head2Wind
quick! everyone pull your CELL PHONE out of your pocket and THROW it in a bucket of water and POKE it with a stick! It will kill you!
I've done both, but only in an effort to kill IT.
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Old 03-02-2010, 07:31 PM   #240
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I just replaced the battery and it turns over really quick and fires right up in like 1/4 second where before it took all of at least 2 seconds and whirred real slow but showed 13.04 volts and was holding charge
the new batt showed 13.34 volts

I also put in a switch to turn off the headlight when starting and an LED indicator for the grip heaters
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