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Old 07-06-2013, 07:58 PM   #8401
Captain115
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Update 2!

I just went for a quick 10-15 minute run to the shop to see how everything was going. I took precautions this time and left with a backpac full of tools and a bottle of oil, just in case.

From idle to 18th or 1/4 throttle is seems fine, happy to pull along.

Above this, the bike stumbles a lot. Like I'm running out of fuel. A mates V-Twin felt similar when there was an electrical problem with the firing of one cylinder, it would stumble due to running rich before firing every now and then.

Pulled the plug when I got home and yep, it's rich. I guess when I leaned out the pilot screw using the idle mixture, it let me run at those lower throttle openings, but the main is still too large and is almost fouling?

I was wondering if I could just lean out the main using the needle clip, until my smaller main jets get here? ie, run it on the 5th clip (1st?) which would lean it out so I could ride it until I swap to smaller mains?

Final question: why would it have run fine for the first 100kms, at different throttle openings etc and now start to die? To pull away from a stop now, I have to short shift to keep it in the lowish throttle otherwise it stumbles...this wasn't the case for the first 100kms till the oil change?

John
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:01 PM   #8402
elsalvadorklr
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because the plug eventually FOULS...

yes lean the clip to 4th leanest dont go all the way on each extreme...this will cause a huge step in acceleration...and is not recomended

cheers
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:09 PM   #8403
Captain115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elsalvadorklr View Post
because the plug eventually FOULS...

yes lean the clip to 4th leanest dont go all the way on each extreme...this will cause a huge step in acceleration...and is not recomended

cheers
Cool, I've just moved the clip to the 2nd spot (whatever, the step before the leanest setting).

Went to start putting it back together and got confused which way the linkage thing sits...the photo in the manual shows one way (cover the hole) and the diagram in the manual appear to show the other direction?

Photos attached so you guys know what I'm on about. Which way?

John

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Old 07-06-2013, 10:22 PM   #8404
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Talking

Unsure about that one Captain... make sure your float is in the correct way up... have you taken it out to clean the carb ect? I put it in UPSIDE DOWN after way too many bevvies, and had the exact same signs that your bike does.....
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:49 PM   #8405
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Looking in the manual (mines a '93), it appears the pivot pin "points" to the right side of the carb.

Was just in there a week or so ago and I'd forgotten since then...
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:00 PM   #8406
mvg2
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Xr400 owner here dropping in for a quick question...

I've read that the xr600 front wheel (plus spacer) is interchangeable with the XR 400.

Do any of you xr600 owners out there have a straight and true front wheel, and spacers, you'd be interested in selling?
Thanks!

...and back to your regularly scheduled programming.. :)
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:04 PM   #8407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoostMaster View Post
Unsure about that one Captain... make sure your float is in the correct way up... have you taken it out to clean the carb ect? I put it in UPSIDE DOWN after way too many bevvies, and had the exact same signs that your bike does.....
Yep thanks Roost, I have taken it apart multiple times now but I have had it back in the correct way (looks wrong since it's got the flat top facing out(. Good suggestion though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.t.t.G. View Post
Looking in the manual (mines a '93), it appears the pivot pin "points" to the right side of the carb.

Was just in there a week or so ago and I'd forgotten since then...
Yeah, that's why I ended up doing. This leaves the hole in the bottom of the slide mostly uncovered, which I imagine might have a significant effect on fuelling? One of the reason I wanted to make sure I had done it right!

Thanks,
John
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:46 AM   #8408
elsalvadorklr
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all I remeber is that the correct way will cover the hole a bit...I remeber paging throuch cheapcylce parts fiches and they show it this way....with the pin and arm all facing a certain way ...

sorry for the vagueness jajaja
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:12 PM   #8409
Captain115
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I took the XR for another quick shakedown ride yesterday, and low and behold the scavenging pump problem resurfaced!

I have no idea why it's doing this, seems to be at random? I'll check the dipstick and it will be very low, open the oil check bolt and all the 'excess' oil in the bottom of the case will come out as it wasn't scavenged back to the frame properly.

I've replaced both those little metal dowel bits plus the o-rings that sit on them, the seal in the right crankcase that goes to the oil filter and verified that all the holes in the case and external pipes are clear. The scavenge pump (both actually) are in spec, no significant scratches etc.

It's hard to trust a bike that had a randomly failing IMPORTANT piece of equipment...if I toast my new rockers cam etc, I'll be so so sad.

I can't afford a new pump, but Steve might be sending me the good spare one he has. In a way I hope the pump is somehow the problem, and that replacing the whole unit fixes it, cause if not then I have no idea?


Quote:
Originally Posted by elsalvadorklr View Post
all I remeber is that the correct way will cover the hole a bit...I remeber paging throuch cheapcylce parts fiches and they show it this way....with the pin and arm all facing a certain way ...

sorry for the vagueness jajaja
Thanks man, that's the way I ended up putting it, so it was slightly covering the hole, not completely covering it.

John
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:19 PM   #8410
elsalvadorklr
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hey captain

you do realze the xr oil system cycles...

in other words its not a constant out and in system, or to put it simply the tank level drops, the bottom fills to a certain level, after a while the scavenge pumps up a bunch of oil the tank fills then falls down and this process repeats itself

if you see flow at the lower banjo after starting you are good unless for example you have a weird issue like the tank is blowing out excess oil, or you are pumping too much oil on the breather hose to the valve cover or you are puking all oil out the crank case vent

if not you are good

its easy to freak out when you dont realize how this system works in reality...I did a bunch then found a cool vid on youtube showing an xr engine with clear hoses attached in leu of the stock hoses and it would cycle a bunch...at some rpms you could also see the amount of froth the pump would pump...fun to watch
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:40 PM   #8411
Captain115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elsalvadorklr View Post
hey captain

you do realze the xr oil system cycles...

in other words its not a constant out and in system, or to put it simply the tank level drops, the bottom fills to a certain level, after a while the scavenge pumps up a bunch of oil the tank fills then falls down and this process repeats itself

if you see flow at the lower banjo after starting you are good unless for example you have a weird issue like the tank is blowing out excess oil, or you are pumping too much oil on the breather hose to the valve cover or you are puking all oil out the crank case vent

if not you are good

its easy to freak out when you dont realize how this system works in reality...I did a bunch then found a cool vid on youtube showing an xr engine with clear hoses attached in leu of the stock hoses and it would cycle a bunch...at some rpms you could also see the amount of froth the pump would pump...fun to watch
Hmmm, thing that gets me though:

It's all warmed up and has the perfect amount of oil in it. I know because I slightly overfilled, ran it then drained the small excess from the case. Basicall the oil leve around the UPPER mark, between the hole and the 'E'.

So I run the bike till its hot (10 mins riding?), turn it off, wait 3-10 minutes and check oil. Just above low mark.

Open the check bolt and bulk oil spills out.

Surely, straight after riding the dry sum would be filled? Because checking the oil using the dipstick wouldn't work if not...the whole idea is that the oil is cycled back up to the sump yeah?

I think I understand what you're saying...during operation, the oil flow is not linear? So it drops, then pumps some back up then drops etc yeah? But when you turn it off, it still should have pumped enough up to the dry sump so that you can check the oil?!?

Thanks for the suggestion though!

Cheers,

John
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:31 PM   #8412
voltz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elsalvadorklr View Post
hey captain

you do realze the xr oil system cycles...

in other words its not a constant out and in system, or to put it simply the tank level drops, the bottom fills to a certain level, after a while the scavenge pumps up a bunch of oil the tank fills then falls down and this process repeats itself

if you see flow at the lower banjo after starting you are good unless for example you have a weird issue like the tank is blowing out excess oil, or you are pumping too much oil on the breather hose to the valve cover or you are puking all oil out the crank case vent

if not you are good

its easy to freak out when you dont realize how this system works in reality...I did a bunch then found a cool vid on youtube showing an xr engine with clear hoses attached in leu of the stock hoses and it would cycle a bunch...at some rpms you could also see the amount of froth the pump would pump...fun to watch
I did not know this is how it works! Thanks for the info, will check YouTube for that video

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Old 07-08-2013, 08:12 PM   #8413
mcma111
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I just figured out what your problem is. The oil is returning to the sump after engine shut down. You wait three to ten minutes and the oil is going by the

Oil Seal, Leak Stopper 15107-MG3-000 Item #6

I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that if you replace this the oil will stay in the frame and not bleed back to the sump.









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Old 07-08-2013, 09:41 PM   #8414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
I just figured out what your problem is. The oil is returning to the sump after engine shut down. You wait three to ten minutes and the oil is going by the

Oil Seal, Leak Stopper 15107-MG3-000 Item #6

I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that if you replace this the oil will stay in the frame and not bleed back to the sump.









Do you have to remove the pump to replace it?

So if you're XR doesn't burn oil, but it's never a correct reading on the stick but its full, it could be this? Is it harmful to have the oil bleed back into the sump, or is it just an annoyance when checking.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:53 PM   #8415
Captain115
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Steve,

Thing that gets me though is that sometimes the oil would stay in the frame all night, without moving on the dipstick. I'd go for a ride, come back and wait the 3-10 minutes, check it and it would be nice and high.

Then other times I would come back and it would be super low and stuck in the cases.

If it was just the oil seal, wouldn't it be regularly draining into the case? And if it is draining as fast as you say (in the 3-10 minutes when I shut if off but before I check it) then how come it sometimes holds it all in the frame for long periods of time?

I will replace this seal as you suggest, can't hurt. However I'm worried that there is another problem here, with something to do with the scavenge pump etc. The worst thing is it seems to happen at random, which make it difficult for me to know if I have fixed the problem or not.

Also, I replaced the O-ring and the dowel that sits between the pump and the cover when I rebuilt the engine. In your XR650L rebuild, I couldn't see you using an o-ring there...should I be using that o-ring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamfslap View Post
Do you have to remove the pump to replace it?

So if you're XR doesn't burn oil, but it's never a correct reading on the stick but its full, it could be this? Is it harmful to have the oil bleed back into the sump, or is it just an annoyance when checking.
Well if it helps, from a full built bike, it only took me about 10 minutes to get the oil pump out. So it's not super time consuming or anything, plus all the parts look cheap (seal etc).

Cheers,

John
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