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Old 07-09-2013, 04:44 AM   #8416
mcma111
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OK, Another thought. Have you had the oil pump all apart? Did you get both dowels that engage with the rotors back in?


Roller (4 X15.8) 96220-40158 Item # 26

If not then the inner rotor will not drive the oil out.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:31 AM   #8417
elsalvadorklr
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hey captain replace the plunger that steve says first, the actual rubber tip, and restretch or get a new plunger spring...

you are having drain back...which almost all bikes suffer a bit you more than others

also try leaving the crank at tdc every shutdown...certain crank positions influence draining more than others, dont know why, something to do with gravity and position of rod maybe...

also you check oil right after shutdown without putting the bike on the stand, just up against a wall maybe after 30 sec or a minute after shutdown

10 minutes after with your bad pump plunger for example will give you the issues you are experiencing

cheers
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:41 AM   #8418
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hey john this is a pic of the plunger, the plunger on our 88 bikes is stepped(they later changed to a solid smooth plunger) you could use a newer style plunger if you wanted...I like this one...



the part that is most important however is the rubber tip...sorry its on the bottom of this(plunger) pic you cant see it well

the spring can be seen, restretch it or get a new one...

I experienced ZERO drainback after my first engine build for over a year until now sometimes when the oil is used and gets thin...

some guy on tt was experiencing the same thing very recently and changed this out and fixed it...

its a very simple yet important part of the pump...
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:43 AM   #8419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain115 View Post
Steve,

Thing that gets me though is that sometimes the oil would stay in the frame all night, without moving on the dipstick. I'd go for a ride, come back and wait the 3-10 minutes, check it and it would be nice and high.

Then other times I would come back and it would be super low and stuck in the cases.

If it was just the oil seal, wouldn't it be regularly draining into the case? And if it is draining as fast as you say (in the 3-10 minutes when I shut if off but before I check it) then how come it sometimes holds it all in the frame for long periods of time?

I will replace this seal as you suggest, can't hurt. However I'm worried that there is another problem here, with something to do with the scavenge pump etc. The worst thing is it seems to happen at random, which make it difficult for me to know if I have fixed the problem or not.

Also, I replaced the O-ring and the dowel that sits between the pump and the cover when I rebuilt the engine. In your XR650L rebuild, I couldn't see you using an o-ring there...should I be using that o-ring?



Well if it helps, from a full built bike, it only took me about 10 minutes to get the oil pump out. So it's not super time consuming or anything, plus all the parts look cheap (seal etc).

Cheers,

John
so did you or did you not use the oring? you MUST! if not you will have these issues

steve uses grease on the dowel then installed the oring

I lay my bike on its side when doing anything clutch related so the dowl and oring sit flat, then all you have to do is install the cover carefully and dont risking losing the dowel or oring
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:38 PM   #8420
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Responses

Ok so here goes:

Steve, I made sure everything was back together properly, so yep the rollers are in there. I've poured oil into when the scavenge pump pulls it from (backside) and turn it and it pumps out through it's two exits ok.

Basically everything seems to be clear and work when apart, just every now and then it stops when running...

elsalvadorklr, I did use the o-ring but was hoping that maybe Steve didn't....and not using it was some special trick that I should've done. No luck there.

I will replace the: spring, seal and cotters pin and see if that helps. It's the easiest and most likely explanation for whats happening so I'll start there.

Thanks for the help guys, I know this must be difficult to diagnose problems over the new and in a different time zone! I'll let you know when it's all back together and see if that's fixed it!

Cheers,

John
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:50 PM   #8421
mcma111
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On my engine build thread I pictured the collar with grease as a way to keep it from jumping ship. The O'ring was used as per the Honda manual.

When I do a service on my XR or XRL I put 2 1/2 quarts of oil in it and call it good. I check for flow at the lower banjo. If oil is there then I'm DONE. As you should be. I think your making a mountain out of a mole hill. If it's got oil, RIDE IT!!! The pump does NOT work SOME TIME. It works ALL the time.

I have NEVER used the oil level bolt on the clutch cover to check for oil level or flow. If there is oil in the motor, IT'S IN.

This ain't rocket science.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:46 PM   #8422
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My plated 600 for sale...

http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...0#post21828210
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:32 PM   #8423
elsalvadorklr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
On my engine build thread I pictured the collar with grease as a way to keep it from jumping ship. The O'ring was used as per the Honda manual.

When I do a service on my XR or XRL I put 2 1/2 quarts of oil in it and call it good. I check for flow at the lower banjo. If oil is there then I'm DONE. As you should be. I think your making a mountain out of a mole hill. If it's got oil, RIDE IT!!! The pump does NOT work SOME TIME. It works ALL the time.

I have NEVER used the oil level bolt on the clutch cover to check for oil level or flow. If there is oil in the motor, IT'S IN.

This ain't rocket science.
I agree except for the statement about the pump...its 100 percent clear especially with proof in vids, vanpelts experiments as well as other that the oil system in the xr cycles...yes its always moving the rotors that is...but its absolutely clear that there is a point where the case has a lot of oil, this excess is quickly pumped up...

its also clear the oil in the frame tank drops and fills up as the engine is working...this is 100 percent proven...

so not to nitpick but I think its this lack of understanding that causes people to freak...

I too agree and have never ever checked the case oil check bolt because I read that it always overflows and basically is not a real world way of checking if the oil system is working properly...

anywhoo

back to scheduled programming!
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:26 PM   #8424
dixiedevil
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figured I throw this question in this thread rather than start a new topic.

I know xr650r seats fit on the xr600 , however. I am wondering if I can use a CRF450 seat cover on the xr600r/650r seat. I know they are shaped a little different but the seat covers i have gotten for my ktm are always way big and i have to trim them down. I may just geta 650 SDG seat with cover, but I have found some pretty sweet looking crf covers.

any help is appreciated

thanks

dixie
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:48 PM   #8425
speedmonkey7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixiedevil View Post
figured I throw this question in this thread rather than start a new topic.

I know xr650r seats fit on the xr600 , however. I am wondering if I can use a CRF450 seat cover on the xr600r/650r seat. I know they are shaped a little different but the seat covers i have gotten for my ktm are always way big and i have to trim them down. I may just geta 650 SDG seat with cover, but I have found some pretty sweet looking crf covers.

any help is appreciated

thanks

dixie
Hey dixie, I don't think the 650r seat even fits the 600r. Maybe the cover could be made to work but pretty sure the pan is totally different. As for the CRF cover fitting a 600r seat, I seriously doubt it. The CRF seat is really narrow and very differently shaped. I don't see how there'd be enough material there to ever make it work. Maybe have an upholstery shop build a custom cover for you?

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Old 07-11-2013, 12:53 AM   #8426
lookfar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixiedevil View Post
figured I throw this question in this thread rather than start a new topic.

I know xr650r seats fit on the xr600 , however. I am wondering if I can use a CRF450 seat cover on the xr600r/650r seat. I know they are shaped a little different but the seat covers i have gotten for my ktm are always way big and i have to trim them down. I may just geta 650 SDG seat with cover, but I have found some pretty sweet looking crf covers.

any help is appreciated

thanks

dixie
Hey Dixie,

Have you had a look through this guy's stuff?
He is in Thailand, but free shipping

http://stores.ebay.com/Replica-Store...=p4634.c0.m322
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:02 AM   #8427
Schrauberklaus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixiedevil View Post
figured I throw this question in this thread rather than start a new topic.

I know xr650r seats fit on the xr600 , however. I am wondering if I can use a CRF450 seat cover on the xr600r/650r seat. I know they are shaped a little different but the seat covers i have gotten for my ktm are always way big and i have to trim them down. I may just geta 650 SDG seat with cover, but I have found some pretty sweet looking crf covers.

any help is appreciated

thanks

dixie
everything can be made to fit

See my CRF Gripper Seat Cover with extended Sides (Black) on the XL Seat
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:07 AM   #8428
Wout67
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With my fingers crossed, I should be picking up an '88 XR600 on Monday night.

I'm selling my '71 Honda CB this weekend, and heading out to pick up my new beast.

Cant wait!!

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Old 07-11-2013, 08:42 AM   #8429
dixiedevil
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Hey man be very excited! I actually sold my 73 Cb750 cafe to get a 96 xr600. First time in a long while i been able to pull the front end up on something without feeling like im going to die!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wout67 View Post
With my fingers crossed, I should be picking up an '88 XR600 on Monday night.

I'm selling my '71 Honda CB this weekend, and heading out to pick up my new beast.

Cant wait!!

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Old 07-11-2013, 09:03 AM   #8430
dixiedevil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schrauberklaus View Post
everything can be made to fit

See my CRF Gripper Seat Cover with extended Sides (Black) on the XL Seat

What do you mean by extended sides? Im guessing based on the bpicture that you added material.



this is what I am wanting to have:

http://throttlejockey.com/product/x_...0SEAT%20COVERS

i may just have to settle for a bland sdg gripper seat cover :(
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