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Old 01-22-2009, 10:08 AM   #121
Owyhee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRider
Nice score! Are the exhaust ports polished also? I like the pic that shows both intakes, sort of a study of before and after porting. Now that you've got the "Big Fin" head let the big bore begin.
The head reads like a 1990's XR's Only catalogue. Big fins, Black Diamond valves, ti keepers, XR's Only springs, and a slick port job. The exhaust ports are ported the same as the intake. They're still dirty and black and I couldn't get a picture to come out.

I scored a LA Sleeve 100mm sleeve and a new JE 100mm 10.5:1 piston. I wanted the magic "628" and was afraid that if I went any bigger the 17-year-old trans would explode.

The bike also has a CR fork (I'm not sure what year--was advertised on eBay as a 1996 CR500 but it isn't), 200w stator, a Baja Designs DS kit, 5.8 gallon tank, WB slip on, and a Mikuni HSR40 carb (also known as TM-40-6). A stage 1 cam is in the works before final reassembly (the engine is in boxes right now). I have a well running 1999 XR600R as a test mule for parts before they go on the fast bike. Parts commonality is awesome.

I'm looking forward to building the bike but I'm out of work and have a toddler so time and money are limited at the moment. I may do a build-up thread here in the Thumper forum.

"O"
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:12 AM   #122
Owyhee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRNovice
Dang!!! Nice score....still debating to add more aluminum to my OEM head.....

Anyone know if the newer heads (single carb) would work on the 86' XR??
Yes and no. The head will go on there but you'll need a single carb cam and rocker box. Also, because the twin carb frames have the shock in the center and the single carb frames have the shock offset to the left (as you sit on the bike) there's no way to route the single carb's intake past the shock on a twin carb bike.

Well, not without being very clever anyway.

"O"
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:20 AM   #123
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I used to know the answer to this...

I recently aquired an 84 XL600R...other than I'm guessing the steel gas tank, what's the difference between this and the XR600's you guys are talking about?

Just curious so I'll know when to pay attention, here!
RicklessssssssssssssS
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:04 AM   #124
Owyhee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricklesss
I recently aquired an 84 XL600R...other than I'm guessing the steel gas tank, what's the difference between this and the XR600's you guys are talking about?

Just curious so I'll know when to pay attention, here!
RicklessssssssssssssS
There's more different then the same XL600 vs. newer XR600R. The XL has a different bore/stroke, two carbs, shorter suspension, and a host of other detail changes. The XR has a more modern suspension for off road use (vs. dual sport use on the XL) that's not really that modern, a single round slide carb, and some (1989 and 1990) have a nakisil cylinder. The 1985 and 1986 XR600Rs are more closely related to the XL as they have dual carbs.

The basic architecture of the engines is the same (RFVC head) and some parts will interchange with the newer single carb bikes. As the XL is getting on in years it's harder to find high performance parts (mufflers, tanks, etc) than it is for the XR which shares many parts with the XR650L which is still in production.

"O"
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:03 PM   #125
Zombie_Stomp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owyhee
Yes and no. The head will go on there but you'll need a single carb cam and rocker box. Also, because the twin carb frames have the shock in the center and the single carb frames have the shock offset to the left (as you sit on the bike) there's no way to route the single carb's intake past the shock on a twin carb bike.

Well, not without being very clever anyway.

"O"
I was clever and i did that, but it just doesn't sit well with me. I even crossed this great land of ours with that setup (single carb in the dual carb frame), but I just decided, "this frame just isn't right for this engine."

XL600R, 1983-1987:
-dual carbs, therefore shock is positioned in the middle
-Proprietary seat/tank/sidepanel combo and mounting points on the frame
-round lower oil tube up front (doesn't affect any swapping, just another difference)
-stiffer, lower rear suspension, small forks up front, beefier rear frame members (for passenger)
-proprietary airbox with a place for a battery and different mounting points on the frame
-cush-drive rear hub (purpose-built dual- spart, so this helps for the on-road to protect driveline)
-steel swingarm, bushing pivot points
'83-'84, the automatic decompression was on a cable pulled by a cam off the kickstart lever that opened a 5th valve in the head connected to a little chamber on the side of the head. This cut the compression in half while kicking, but you still had to pull the decompression lever which opened the right exhaust valve, kick past TDC by an inch, and then deliver the starting kick.

In '85 they moved the same auto decomp. cable over to an extra actuator lever that they built onto the manual decompress so it just vented out the exhaust. No sense saving up half the precious little compression in a sealed chamber, they figured.

XR600R, 1985-1987
-dual carbs, shock is in the middle again
-proprietary seat, tank, side panel, mounting points on frame (might share 2 of 3 tank mounting points with the XL)
-square lower oil tube up front
-softer, higher suspension, the upper shock mount extends to a lower point to achieve this
-proprietary airbox and mounting points with no battery place
-aluminum swingarm, roller bearing pivot points
-direct drive hub/sprocket (no cush)
Bore:100mm
stroke: 75mm
displacement:589cm3

88-? XR600R
-another round of sidepanels, unsure of interchangeability with the '85-'87 models, although the seat and tank seem to be the same shapes.
-single carb, offset to one side. The upper mounting point and swingarm linkage is offset to one side and the same airbox has a different rubber manifold feeding into the same airbox. Upper shock mounting point also lower than the XL. Everything else the same as the other XR600Rs above.
Bore:97mm
stroke: 82mm
Displacement: 591cm3
The camshaft now has an integrated auto decompresion that is all enclosed in the rocker box and vents ot thre exhaust. No more burp chamber cast into the head block.

'93-'08 XR650L
same as XR600R of later years except the engine has electric start, different electrical system with turn signals that now requires electrical current to start (no bump starting with a plumb dead batery or no battery) a sidestand kill switch, a different left side panel for the special battery compartment that has a bigger battery than the old XLs.
bore:100mm
stroke:82mm
displacement: 644cm3
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Zombie_Stomp screwed with this post 01-22-2009 at 12:31 PM
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:24 AM   #126
XRNovice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Stomp
-direct drive hub/sprocket (no cush)
So since I'm using my XR for mainly on road (Non-highway speeds!) use, should I be worried??

I totally forgot about the cush drive....

An answer on this would be great, as I better start looking for an XL rear wheel...
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Old 01-24-2009, 12:33 PM   #127
DirtHopper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRNovice
So since I'm using my XR for mainly on road (Non-highway speeds!) use, should I be worried??

I totally forgot about the cush drive....

An answer on this would be great, as I better start looking for an XL rear wheel...
A cush drive's main function is to take up peaks in power, like when you are shifting. It helps limit some of the wear of your primary and drive components. so if you are a little racey with the throttle, you may see a great difference in how many sets of chains and sprockets you go through. If you are a casual rider, I wouldn't worry about it

Just my $.02
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:13 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtHopper
A cush drive's main function is to take up peaks in power, like when you are shifting. It helps limit some of the wear of your primary and drive components. so if you are a little racey with the throttle, you may see a great difference in how many sets of chains and sprockets you go through. If you are a casual rider, I wouldn't worry about it

Just my $.02
The main concern would be one's need to replace the countershaft because of worn splines. There are springs absorbing the shock of the clutch engaging inside the clutch mechanism as well, and if you use knobby dot tires, that helps absorb some of it too. Now RAD manufacturing makes a really cool cush drive hub, but it costs a lot. Unfortunately, the XL600R cush drive hub wheel does not fit the XR swingarm directly. I was about to leave on a big move via motorcycle out here to Washington where I am now when I tried to interchang the two, so I just did not have time to mess around with spacers, so I'm not saying it's imposible. i doon't think the lack of a cush drive on XR650Ls and street lega lXR600s is a huge problem with countershaft wear. If your level of concern risies, just begin to feather the clutch more when riding.
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STOLEN: RED XL600 in Portland

I do heavy-duty textile repair, upholstery, and design/manufacture bags.
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Old 01-24-2009, 03:07 PM   #129
GodSilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRNovice
So since I'm using my XR for mainly on road (Non-highway speeds!) use, should I be worried??

I totally forgot about the cush drive....

An answer on this would be great, as I better start looking for an XL rear wheel...
I just run knobby tyres always. The knobs flex and wear on sealed surfaces, so I figure the tyre wear is sacrificial and takes the place of a cush hub. Knobbies are cheap enough anyways.
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:53 PM   #130
XRider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owyhee
The head reads like a 1990's XR's Only catalogue. Big fins, Black Diamond valves, ti keepers, XR's Only springs, and a slick port job. The exhaust ports are ported the same as the intake. They're still dirty and black and I couldn't get a picture to come out.

I scored a LA Sleeve 100mm sleeve and a new JE 100mm 10.5:1 piston. I wanted the magic "628" and was afraid that if I went any bigger the 17-year-old trans would explode.

The bike also has a CR fork (I'm not sure what year--was advertised on eBay as a 1996 CR500 but it isn't), 200w stator, a Baja Designs DS kit, 5.8 gallon tank, WB slip on, and a Mikuni HSR40 carb (also known as TM-40-6). A stage 1 cam is in the works before final reassembly (the engine is in boxes right now). I have a well running 1999 XR600R as a test mule for parts before they go on the fast bike. Parts commonality is awesome.

I'm looking forward to building the bike but I'm out of work and have a toddler so time and money are limited at the moment. I may do a build-up thread here in the Thumper forum.

"O"
DO NOT put a stage 1 cam in that head. If you run a Hot Cam with racing springs the cam will come apart and destroy your top end. I know because it happened to me. Hot Cams are intended to be used with stock valve train components only. Personaly I'll never use another one, that damn thing cost me a fortune when it wiped out my top end.
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:34 AM   #131
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I don't speed shift or shift violently....I just shift with the clutch for normal take offs, and when I need to goose it, I drop the clutch but always have it close to the right rpms.

My worries are, is when I have it in a gear, I do like to MOVE!!

Just worried that the torque will eventually ruin the counter shaft....

Thumper talk.com said the 86' XR had weak counter shafts so the worry is on the mind at this point.

So, an 86' XL600R rear rim will not fit he XR600R swing arm???

What if I change the swing arm from the XL to the XR???

Is that a direct bolt on??

Cheers

Mike
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Motorcycles owned currently:
Two 75', 76' Honda CB400F Super Sports, 1984 Honda V30 Interceptor 500, 1986 Modded Honda XR600R, Motorcycles owned past:
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Dream bike:
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:54 AM   #132
Zombie_Stomp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRNovice
I don't speed shift or shift violently....I just shift with the clutch for normal take offs, and when I need to goose it, I drop the clutch but always have it close to the right rpms.

My worries are, is when I have it in a gear, I do like to MOVE!!

Just worried that the torque will eventually ruin the counter shaft....

Thumper talk.com said the 86' XR had weak counter shafts so the worry is on the mind at this point.

So, an 86' XL600R rear rim will not fit he XR600R swing arm???

What if I change the swing arm from the XL to the XR???

Is that a direct bolt on??

Cheers

Mike
You would need to use the linkage from the XL a well, but that should work, using the swingarm. You still have dual carbs, so there would be no need for the offset linkage, it will be a good match in the center.

The countershaft on the '86 is a weaker design mainly, it has fewer splines, all of them bigger than on the '88 and on models. I did notice that they would dent up easily, the two that I went through on the XL. I doubted they would ever cease to be useable, but may become a pain to get your sprocket off of. If you ever go to replaced it, you could order a countershaft from an '88 and order your sprockets accordingly.
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1982 4x4 longbed, a rolling daily driver work-in-progress...
1987 Yamaha XT600 2KF (German)
STOLEN: RED XL600 in Portland

I do heavy-duty textile repair, upholstery, and design/manufacture bags.
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:01 PM   #133
XRNovice
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Just looked at the 86' XL rear swing arm.....I see no difference than from XR's swing arm....????

Anyone have any measurements of the 86' XL arm??

My splines look really good!!! Sprocket comes off very easy....I think it looks to New...maybe it was replaced when the PO rebuilt the bike. I still don't know what Performance parts he put into it.

Thanks for the help and reply's guys

Cheers

Mike
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Motorcycles owned currently:
Two 75', 76' Honda CB400F Super Sports, 1984 Honda V30 Interceptor 500, 1986 Modded Honda XR600R, Motorcycles owned past:
1981 CB650C, Two 1982 GL500 Silverwing Interstate's, 1978 Hondamatic Hawk Type II, 1982 KZ550 A3
Dream bike:
1989 Honda Hurricane 600
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Old 01-26-2009, 06:13 PM   #134
Zombie_Stomp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRNovice
Just looked at the 86' XL rear swing arm.....I see no difference than from XR's swing arm....????

Anyone have any measurements of the 86' XL arm??

My splines look really good!!! Sprocket comes off very easy....I think it looks to New...maybe it was replaced when the PO rebuilt the bike. I still don't know what Performance parts he put into it.

Thanks for the help and reply's guys

Cheers

Mike
Pardon me, I was working with an '89 model XR600, so there very well may be no difference between the swingarms or even wheel interchangeability on your '86 come to think of it. Are you looking at a real-life XL swingarm? I'm not 100% sure of when they started making the swingarms out of aluminum, but I think they had two different styles of aluminum ones, one that looked the same as the steel ones from a distance, about the same dimensions, and another that was noticeably thicker.
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STOLEN: RED XL600 in Portland

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Old 01-26-2009, 06:18 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Stomp
I'm not 100% sure of when they started making the swingarms out of aluminum, but I think they had two different styles of aluminum ones, one that looked the same as the steel ones from a distance, about the same dimensions, and another that was noticeably thicker.

I think, but am not sure....that the box section alloy swingarms came along with Pro-Link.
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